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EvC Forum ⇒ Science Forums ⇒ The Bible: Accuracy and Inerrancy ⇒ Not The Planet ⇒

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Author Topic:   Not The Planet
Panda
Member (Idle past 2338 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010

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Message 139 of 306 (638959)
10-27-2011 9:04 AM 		Reply to: Message 138 by NoNukes
10-27-2011 8:53 AM

Re: Still Not The Planet - Bump
NoNukes writes:

So how does any of that invalidate the Flood story or the Creation story?


I think PD is saying that when the bible says something like "The water covered the earth" it does not mean "The water covered the planet".
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
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Panda
Member (Idle past 2338 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010

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Message 142 of 306 (639014)
10-27-2011 12:59 PM 		Reply to: Message 141 by Granny Magda
10-27-2011 12:45 PM

Re: Still Not The Planet - Bump
GM writes:

For instance it speaks of "and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven," being covered; now that could just mean the local area, but it doesn't seem like the most obvious meaning. It sounds more like everything was flooded, everything that could be flooded was flooded. They just didn't imagine it on a planetary scale because they had no such concept to work with.

Surely it would not be possible for Mount Ararat to be covered with water without the whole planet being flooded?
You couldn't have water above sea-level without it running into the sea - unless there was a massive container (taller than Mount Ararat) holding the water in place?
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
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 Message 141 by Granny Magda, posted 10-27-2011 12:45 PM Granny Magda has responded
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 Message 146 by Granny Magda, posted 10-27-2011 1:34 PM Panda has responded
  
Panda
Member (Idle past 2338 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010

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Message 147 of 306 (639021)
10-27-2011 1:49 PM 		Reply to: Message 146 by Granny Magda
10-27-2011 1:34 PM

Re: Still Not The Planet - Bump
GM writes:

As I've said elsewhere, Ararat is the 48nd highest peak in the world. That effectively puts most of the world under water if Ararat is flooded. But that's in reality. We're talking about the Bible here.

Ah yes - I had forgotten that this is not a 'religious only' thread.

GM writes:

You've got to remember that these ancient authors had a very different concept of the world around them than we do. If the physical/geographical details of the story aren't believable, that shouldn't surprise us. The authors had no idea about the world around them. Or maybe they never meant for it to be a literal account. Maybe they always intended it to be a mythic story. Or maybe it was meant to be a myth and literally true. We shouldn't expect these authors to think like us or see the world like us.

I have never succeeded in putting myself into the shoes of the original authors. From my own PoV, I would be very dissatisfied if I had written Genesis.
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
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Panda
Member (Idle past 2338 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010

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Message 284 of 306 (642438)
11-28-2011 7:48 PM 		Reply to: Message 283 by New Cat's Eye
11-28-2011 4:36 PM

Re: Muddy Waters
CS writes:

I agree that the word earth is not referring to a planet. But from the story as a whole, it doesn't make sense for the flood to be just a local one that didn't really flood everything.


As Hyroglyphx said in Message 238:

Hyroglyphx writes:

quote:
I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth.” -- Genesis 9:11

Obviously there have been many localized floods since this time.


Surely, if it was a local flood, then god has broken his covenant - as there have been many local floods since the covenant was made.
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
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Panda
Member (Idle past 2338 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010

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Message 300 of 306 (642857)
12-02-2011 8:50 AM 		Reply to: Message 299 by Straggler
12-02-2011 7:55 AM

Re: Muddy Waters
Straggler writes:

If it wasn't the entire world/planet/whatever one wants to call it - What was the point of saving two of each animal in the ark?


Various parts of the flood story only make sense from a global perspective (e.g. saving 2 of each animal, cleansing evil).

A local flood would be so mundane that it would not have any worth beyond "god is quite powerful".
It would be on a par with "God made a hurricane which killed a lot of people".

Edited by Panda, : Changed to a summation message.

Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
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