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Author Topic:   A modern object described in ancient texts negates Creation Myth
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 22 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 31 of 117 (113460)
06-07-2004 11:46 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by One_Charred_Wing
06-07-2004 8:19 PM


Re: Pathetic
Don't cross that line, please. His faith may stand on that, but mine doesn't and the majority of the churchgoing kids I know don't go for that either.

i never stated that your faith -- or mine -- hinged on it. simply a psychological observation about the driving force behind his "mental gymnastics."

Hey now, he hasn't mislead me! With all due respect, you're making it sound like Christians are a bunch of stupid kids that don't know any better.

well, that would detrimental to my point since i am a christian. painting myself to be a big stupid kid is, well, stupid and childish of me.

i didn't mean to imply that hovind has suckered all christians, or even most of them. just a select group of especially gullible ones. it was not meant as a statment of condemnation of christians, only hovind.

sort of.

i do feel bad for him though. as i posted before, he's straining at gnats but swallow cammels. completely missing the point of christianity, and leading others astray.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 06-07-2004 8:19 PM One_Charred_Wing has not yet responded

  
Eddy Pengelly
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 117 (114089)
06-10-2004 2:25 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Eddy Pengelly
06-07-2004 11:46 AM


Book - Roll - Wheel - DVD - Time Travel : Questions Answered
Here are replies to your questions as promised. (Written June 7 2004):

Why would they write everything in Hebrew or Greek and then use and English acronym DVD ? Doesn't make sense.

"DVD" is easier to say than 'digital versatile disk' and is written easier than CD-Rom, especially if you were trying to tell an ancient person the name of the item that we know as a small silver sided 'wheel'.

A time traveller (messenger - angel) told the ancient person (who either wrote the original text or related what he was told to someone else later). In Hebrew, DVD transliterates as the Hebrew characters for "dvd" (unable to reproduce them here), but when this was related to other people as a sound and then much later translated into Greek, then Latin, then Old English, then 'modern English', then American English, etc. etc., the vowel sounds of "a" and "i" were added.

It is the later vocalized translations of Hebrew and subsequent Greek interpretations of the letter sequence DVD into David that have covered over the acronym that was told to the ancient person.

A DVD that held less information than a 5 1/4" Double-sided (not even double-density) floppy disk ! ??

The digital versatile disk (called a cd-rom in the mid 1990s) Ancient Civilizations of the Mediterranean contains 132 sub-directory folders with a total of 2,398 files that use 351MB of disk space.
When this is 'set-up' to the hard-drive it places only 22 files in a folder it names 'Mediterr' and date stamps most files to 12:00:00AM.
In the default Windows 3.1 File Manager window, twelve of these files are visible on a 386/486 IBM PC with the mediterr.exe programme file having a data value of 143,442 kb.
When a 'property' request is done on this file, it gives 144K.

No. The DVD did not hold less than a 5 1/4" Double-sided floppy disk.
The data files placed on a Hard Drive at setup only take up 1.56MB.
The file that gets highlighted and clicked upon to make the book with seven seals "open" has 144K of data.

Why would the John writer, presumably ignorant of binary number systems and the idea of binary data storage, care to specify the byte size of a computer file?
How would he even understand what that meant? Why was he told this ?

John was being visited by a time traveller who was showing him the Ancients cd-rom on a computer for an important reason - but John was under the impression that this was one of God's angels, who had told him (as reported in Revelations 1:19) to "Write the things which thou hast seen..."

He saw the twelve lots of 12:00:00 but reports he was told the number 144 thousand in Revelations 7:4.
So he did what he was told - he wrote it down - even though he probably did not really comprehend what he was being shown.

The name of this book of the Bible itself answers why he was told this number.
"Revelations" has to do with disclosing, uncovering, or unveiling what previously was hidden, making known what had been secret.

John was told the numerical value of the highlighted file that made the 'sun-disk' (wheel) operate. This was significant, as the time traveller was explaining to John that previous Middle Eastern 'prophets' who viewed this cd-rom ended up with 'sun-disk/god' religions being formed due to their encounters.

John later reports in Revelations 13:9-18 that he was told which religious group was going to form the un-holy trinity religion, whose Mark had 666 verses and whose members were forced to worship the first beast (in the form of a Lamb. cf. Rev 13:11-12 and 14:1).

The time encounter with John of Patmos was one of a series of warnings to ancient people that religions had been formed due to misunderstandings about earlier encounters with time travellers.
Also, John was being told that the Romans were changing (going to change) the original Hebrew form of the "Jesus teachings" into their own version of 'Christianity' - and add extra words to verses to make their doctrines appear biblical.

How does he (Ron Pegg) know time travellers ran Windows 3.1, anyways? or Groliers?

Using the original ancient Hebrew meanings of the texts instead of the given Old English word meanings for the Bible, Ron Pegg has discovered that just like the DVD verse under discussion, other verses in the Bible describe Windows 3 and three specific cd-roms that were shown to ancient 'prophets' - one being the Grolier cd-rom. (Refer Mr Pegg's PaRDeS Booklet # 7. Too much to post here.)

Windows 3 Operating System described in the Bible
(extraction used with permission)

The Windows 3 operating system's File Manager Screen is {relatively} clearly stated in a sequence of original Hebrew words of 1Kings 7:4-5 but the added English words and amended sentence structure hide the message in "And {there were} windows {in} three rows, and light {was} against light {in} three ranks. And all the doors and posts {were} square, with the windows: and light {was} against light {in} three ranks."

Removing the added words gives; "Windows three. Rows light. Against light three ranks. All the doors and posts square. With the windows light against light, three ranks".

In Strong's Concordance Word 4237 "light" means 'window' but comes from Word 2372 which specifically means 'to have a vision of' as in 'to perceive'. Therefore Etymology of the word "light" conveys the feel that there is some type of vision in a window.

This reads as; "Windows 3. Rows perceived. Against three perceived ranks. All the doors and posts; square within the perceived windows. Against three perceived ranks.

This is saying that "Windows 3 (the operating system). Rows seen (the rows of windows in the File Manager). All the doors and posts (the scroll bars and borders) within the windows are square".
Why are we told twice "Against three perceived ranks" ?
We are being told that these words are encoded, therefore we need to recheck the Etymology.
Word 7969 "three" as an ordinal number means 'third'. Word 6471 "rank" means 'to stroke' but comes from word 6470 which means 'to tap'.

So "Against three perceived ranks" = 'against the third perceived to tap' and because the English translation has rearranged the original word sequence, this gives "to tap against the third perceived {window}".

So does the Windows 3- File Manager's screen have three square windows, and do we stroke (click the mouse) in the third window ?

Yes. To run the Ancients CD-Rom we need to click on the appropriate highlighted in the third window - the one containing the programme.exe file.

Why a 386 and Windows 3.1 ?

The minimum computer requirements needed to run and operate the Ancients cd-rom are a 386 CPU, MS Windows 3.11, MS-Dos 6, SVGA Monitor, an Audio Board, and a double-speed CD-ROM Drive.
It would not be necessary to take a Pentium 4 computer with all the modern features because it would not enhance the presentation in any way.
The saying "Less is Best" applies here.

A side issue that I have no way of investigating is "Was this technology used because time travel was perfected in the mid 1990s ?

Taking a Greek word, making a simplistic translation into English, and the looking into the etymology of the English translation does not sound like sound reasoning to me.

We are trying to discover the original word used and the meaning of that Greek word. It has been found that most often the modern English given translation that we know does not reflect that original intended meaning.

It is the Old English scribe's interpretation and translation of the original Hebrew and Greek words that have changed the meanings of the words. Translation into modern English has further compounded the problem.

Etymology tells us from where words originated, and in Strong's Concordance, it can be clearly seen that many of the given Old English words from the Bible do not even use the known root Greek or Hebrew meanings.

Mr Pegg asks the question "Why have the scribes used different meanings than the known root meanings" to which he suggests an answer "The scribes had a religious agenda, and as such made the verses say what they thought or were told to make them say".

When, as shown in the verse under discussion, the original root meanings of the Greek and Hebrew words are employed in place of the given religious interpretation, a new 'hidden' meaning is revealed.

I hope to post as a separate topic how and why Mr Pegg searches for the original meanings.

Ok, now that we've removed all this Greek to English to Latin = round : book/roll, where's the connotation of roundness ?

Revelations is written in Greek. Strong's Concordance provides us with the meanings of the Old English words used in the New Testament. Greek word referenced # 975 "book" means a roll, but has been written in the Bible as having four different interpretations - being either 'a bill, book, scroll, or writing'.
But the primary meaning is "roll" and not one of the interpretations.

However, 'roll' is an English word. So what did this English word mean back in John's time ?
In John's time they spoke Latin. An English dictionary tells us that the word 'roll' comes from Latin 'rota' meaning wheel.
So while we say roll, and John wrote the word roll in Greek (biblion), at that time, in Latin it would have been known as a "rota".

The 1611AD Old English translation of the Bible incorporated ideas and was partly derived from the Latin Vulgate Bible (among several others).
Therefore it can be seen that the Latin word rota (meaning wheel) has a language connection to the Greek word biblion that we now know in English as roll.
(See separate posting on Mr Pegg's methods and reasons.)

"Where's the connotation of roundness ?" - a wheel is round and it rolls !

How could the time traveller and John understand each other? I'm sure our understanding of the language used back then is a little off, so even if he took courses or something they couldn't communicate completely.

The Ancients cd-rom was produced in English, French, German, and Italian.
Latin was the language of ancient Rome. John was in a Roman prison.
It is my understanding that he probably understood Latin - so if the time traveller spoke Italian or even better, Latin, then this would sufficiently address this question.

So how'd the computer get back in John's time?

A Time Machine ! ?
I personally do not know, but Time Travel is the prime conclusion drawn from the volume of the available evidence presented by Mr Pegg.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Eddy Pengelly, posted 06-07-2004 11:46 AM Eddy Pengelly has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by arachnophilia, posted 06-10-2004 4:31 AM Eddy Pengelly has not yet responded
 Message 34 by arachnophilia, posted 06-10-2004 4:35 AM Eddy Pengelly has not yet responded
 Message 35 by arachnophilia, posted 06-10-2004 9:32 AM Eddy Pengelly has not yet responded
 Message 39 by crashfrog, posted 06-10-2004 10:21 PM Eddy Pengelly has not yet responded

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 22 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 33 of 117 (114098)
06-10-2004 4:31 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Eddy Pengelly
06-10-2004 2:25 AM


Re: Book - Roll - Wheel - DVD - Time Travel : Questions Answered
The minimum computer requirements needed to run and operate the Ancients cd-rom are a 386 CPU, MS Windows 3.11, MS-Dos 6, SVGA Monitor, an Audio Board, and a double-speed CD-ROM Drive.
It would not be necessary to take a Pentium 4 computer with all the modern features because it would not enhance the presentation in any way.
The saying "Less is Best" applies here.

no no, you're ignoring missing the point of the question.

i can't find a pentium 1 nowadays, let alone a 386. why that particular software? presuming i was devious enough to alter timelines and whatnot, i would take back some nice information. for instance, i have a really snazzy encyclopedia britannica dvd. that would work just as well.

Revelations is written in Greek. Strong's Concordance provides us with the meanings of the Old English words used in the New Testament. Greek word referenced # 975 "book" means a roll, but has been written in the Bible as having four different interpretations - being either 'a bill, book, scroll, or writing'.
But the primary meaning is "roll" and not one of the interpretations.

two of us posted the greek. the word in question biblion, from biblios. it means "writings." if we're going to translate into english first, you might as well do it to mean "bible" because that's where we get that word. it tended to mean "scroll" at the time, because the bound book hadn't been invented yet.

however, scrolls are cylindrical. if i were talking abotu a flat disc, especially one that SPINS i would use something like "kuklos" and maybe modified by "helissio"

perhaps they took back a 1970's drum drive? or the very first variety of the phonograph? those were both cylindrical.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Eddy Pengelly, posted 06-10-2004 2:25 AM Eddy Pengelly has not yet responded

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 22 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 34 of 117 (114099)
06-10-2004 4:35 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Eddy Pengelly
06-10-2004 2:25 AM


Re: Book - Roll - Wheel - DVD - Time Travel : Questions Answered
A time traveller (messenger - angel) told the ancient person (who either wrote the original text or related what he was told to someone else later). In Hebrew, DVD transliterates as the Hebrew characters for "dvd" (unable to reproduce them here), but when this was related to other people as a sound and then much later translated into Greek, then Latin, then Old English, then 'modern English', then American English, etc. etc., the vowel sounds of "a" and "i" were added.

incorrect.

had it been written in hebrew, i'd let this slide, because the hebrew of the bible is written without vowels, and originally without vowel pointers.

however, the greek WAS written with vowels, and revelation was originally written in greek. the word being translated as the name david in revelation is dabid with a b, not a v.

however, the david in hebrew is d-v-d. perhaps you believe the ancient king himself was really, say, a collection of davey and goliath on dvd?

This message has been edited by Arachnophilia, 06-10-2004 03:46 AM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Eddy Pengelly, posted 06-10-2004 2:25 AM Eddy Pengelly has not yet responded

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 22 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 35 of 117 (114116)
06-10-2004 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Eddy Pengelly
06-10-2004 2:25 AM


Re: Book - Roll - Wheel - DVD - Time Travel : Questions Answered
hey eddy, in response to your upcoming thread which may get shot down due to the HUGE cut and paste job that it is, i'd like to take a moment and reply.

i too am using strong's concordance, and thoroughly believe in getting to the root meaning of the word. i do not trust any translation of the bible except my own, and even then i usually don't trust that as accruate. if you look earlier, i actually posted the original verse in question in greek, along with my own translation using the concordance. it's not that tricky to use.

however, in interest of fairness and honesty, its best to go straight from the original to modern language, and only one time. taking it from greek to english to old english to latin to english is going to result in distortions, such as changing the meaning of "writings" to "scroll" to "round" when other greek words would suffice for "round" in the first place. for a demonstration of why it's bad to go through multiple translations, here's part of your post:

"DVD" this 'digital is a flexible communication disk' simpler; one and simpler of the FILE of Rome of DIGITALIS one is written, special, if the end to say to an old person attemped that the small names had had this, that we considered those moneies 'wheel' it knows.

now, that's run through spanish, english, spanish, and then english again. i'm sure i can get it to do sillier things. but where's this business about rome come from? and file? and the elderly? kind of distorts it a little.

and if we are to apply pardes to christian texts, as i think we should, let's focus on remez and drush at least, which would indicate moral lessons and teachings, and symbolism. what you're attempting to do is squeeze something into a very literal, p'shat, reading of the text, and reassign words different meanings. if we are to read revelation with sod in mind, there's alot there about inner spritual matters, christianity in rome, etc, and the individual words hold meanings of their own.

i see no evidence of time travel, but some very nice symbolic meanings instead.

This message has been edited by Arachnophilia, 06-10-2004 08:35 AM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Eddy Pengelly, posted 06-10-2004 2:25 AM Eddy Pengelly has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Abshalom, posted 06-10-2004 4:08 PM arachnophilia has responded

  
Abshalom
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 117 (114198)
06-10-2004 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by arachnophilia
06-10-2004 9:32 AM


Wheels From a 2002 SUV Found In Red Sea Prove Exodus Time Travel Connection
I'm sure this will be the next headline from Eddie complete with Hebrew to English translations of the real meaning of S-U-V or V-U-S.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by arachnophilia, posted 06-10-2004 9:32 AM arachnophilia has responded

Replies to this message:
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Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 117 (114221)
06-10-2004 5:44 PM


I also remember reading in the OT that Baalam tied his ass to a tree and walked a mile away. Did they have rubber bands back then?
  
Bonobojones
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 117 (114259)
06-10-2004 8:50 PM


But the Bible
has more mentions of Apples! So why would a time traveller use a crappy Wintel box with 3.1 when a G-5 running Panther would be far more intuitive and easier for a primitive to use?
On second thought, I guess it was an Apple that caused the Fall, eh.
  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 117 (114265)
06-10-2004 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Eddy Pengelly
06-10-2004 2:25 AM


The minimum computer requirements needed to run and operate the Ancients cd-rom are a 386 CPU, MS Windows 3.11, MS-Dos 6, SVGA Monitor, an Audio Board, and a double-speed CD-ROM Drive.
It would not be necessary to take a Pentium 4 computer with all the modern features because it would not enhance the presentation in any way.
The saying "Less is Best" applies here.

Does Win3.1 even have DVD drivers? I doubt it.

Furthermore a 386 laptop weighs about 5 times as much as a modern Sony laptop. Why would anyone travel back in time with a crappy, heavy portable when a modern subnotebook would work? Furthermore, they'd have to get the 386 machine from a museum, that far in the future. Why bother when off-the-shelf will do?

The time travel premise I'll grant you, because I'm no physicist. But I know a thing or two about computers, and it defies logic to expect a future time traveler to raid a museum for a computer that won't do anything that off-the-shelf hardware won't do better, faster, and lighter.

Less isn't best, here, because the computer you're talking about isn't less, it's more - more weight, more size, and more trouble to acquire.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Eddy Pengelly, posted 06-10-2004 2:25 AM Eddy Pengelly has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 06-11-2004 6:08 PM crashfrog has responded

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 22 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 40 of 117 (114339)
06-11-2004 2:17 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Abshalom
06-10-2004 4:08 PM


Re: Wheels From a 2002 SUV Found In Red Sea Prove Exodus Time Travel Connection
Wheels From a 2002 SUV Found In Red Sea Prove Exodus Time Travel Connection

more like 1981 delorian rims.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Abshalom, posted 06-10-2004 4:08 PM Abshalom has not yet responded

  
Petruchio
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 117 (114423)
06-11-2004 10:54 AM


Any sane people 'round here?
Ancient Hebrew DVD equals modern English Digital Video Disc? Nice little parody of creationist logic, but I fear the boy's serious. If so, it's a clear case of runaway rationalising in a confined factual space, absent perspective.

It almost makes the creation myth look credible.

Nuts to both.


  
Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1092 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 42 of 117 (114530)
06-11-2004 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by crashfrog
06-10-2004 10:21 PM


quote:
The time travel premise I'll grant you, because I'm no physicist.

What hypocrisy !

Just because you aint a physicist you won't laugh this nonsense off the board. You are so openminded........you and Crick's space aliens.

Anything and everything will be considered except God.

This is blatant evidence of the "God sense removal" declared in Romans 1


This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by crashfrog, posted 06-10-2004 10:21 PM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by jar, posted 06-11-2004 7:18 PM Cold Foreign Object has responded
 Message 47 by crashfrog, posted 06-11-2004 8:26 PM Cold Foreign Object has responded

    
Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1092 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 43 of 117 (114531)
06-11-2004 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Edward Teller
06-03-2004 11:34 AM


Hey Eddie:

Your reliance on Strong's Dictionary is a solid sign of an amateur. While Strong's is popular without a doubt - it is a source for beginners. No serious scholar/theologian would rely on Strong's as their primary source for Biblical word meanings.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Edward Teller, posted 06-03-2004 11:34 AM Edward Teller has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 44 of 117 (114537)
06-11-2004 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Cold Foreign Object
06-11-2004 6:08 PM


WT

This is blatant evidence of the "God sense removal" declared in Romans 1

What nonsense. You and the FUNDIES make a wonderful pair. You each have THE answer .

And in this case, your bitching doesn't even make sense. If Time Travel were developed it would certainly be testable while GOD will never be testable or verifiable.

Give it a break.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 06-11-2004 6:08 PM Cold Foreign Object has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 06-11-2004 7:44 PM jar has responded

  
Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1092 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 45 of 117 (114541)
06-11-2004 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by jar
06-11-2004 7:18 PM


quote:
What nonsense.

This reaction of yours also demonstrates the truth of Romans 1.

It is "nonsense" because "God sense" has been removed.

All because you will protect the nonsense of space aliens and time travel and the reputable people who support this nonsense. God is way more plausible and the refusal to even credit Him deistically demonstrates the truth of Romans 1.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by jar, posted 06-11-2004 7:18 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
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