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Author Topic:   A modern object described in ancient texts negates Creation Myth
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 24 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 106 of 117 (120577)
07-01-2004 2:45 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by John Williams
07-01-2004 2:32 AM


Re: Re:
aswell, as the Chariot wheels of Pharoahs army in the Red Sea

that would be quite an accomplishment, considering that, even if you believe everything in the bible happened, pharoah's army trying to cross the red sea sure didn't.

because the good book actually says "yam cuwph" ... "the sea of reeds"


This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by John Williams, posted 07-01-2004 2:32 AM John Williams has not yet responded

  
John Williams
Member (Idle past 3044 days)
Posts: 157
From: Oregon, US
Joined: 06-29-2004


Message 107 of 117 (120616)
07-01-2004 5:11 AM


sea of reads
Yes, that's true.

It was called the sea of reeds.

Red sea is a corruption of the true name.

Red sea, Reed sea, whatever.

I guess people still like to call it the Red Sea because they get a romantic idea of the bloody drowned soldiers of pharoah's army turning the sea red.

funny idea anyways.


    
John Williams
Member (Idle past 3044 days)
Posts: 157
From: Oregon, US
Joined: 06-29-2004


Message 108 of 117 (120619)
07-01-2004 5:14 AM


Re:
either that, or they are just too ignorant to change the name to it's original meaning.
    
Eddy Pengelly
Inactive Member


Message 109 of 117 (120813)
07-01-2004 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by One_Charred_Wing
06-29-2004 6:08 PM


Born2Preach writes:

Show them {ancient people} something that would cause the description to be so blatantly obvious that ANYBODY of 2004 would see it.

Please don't shoot me, I am only presenting you the evidence of which you ask, as written by Mr Pegg. (extraction used with permission)

Mr Pegg writes:

Plagues of War.
The Old Testament (ca.1230 BC) religious story is about the ten plagues that occur in Egypt as a result of the Pharaoh not letting the people go.
The location of Egypt in biblical times included all of the countries of the Egyptian Empire that stretched from the river Nile across to the Euphrates river. This included the two countries of Iraq and Kuwait. So literally, the Pharaoh was the leader of (what is now) Iraq and Kuwait.

In August 1990 the leader of Iraq, President Saddam Hussein, invaded and annexed the country of Kuwait and would not let it go.

The religious stories in Exodus about the plagues of Egypt are in fact descriptions of the various events from the Persian Gulf War that are explained in associated literal terms at the level of understanding of the ancient writers of the Old Testament.
(ie. How would you describe a squadron of aircraft that swarm and fly in the sky like birds; or ships of the sea that come onto land like a frog ?)

The plague of;

Blood refers to the bloodshed of the war.

Frogs refers to the amphibious assault craft that came ashore from the Coalition ships in the Persian Gulf.

Lice refers to the military tanks of the ground forces. (It is also a visual description {of the tank battle from the (I)Grolier(/I) cd-rom}.)

Swarm of flies (and hornets Deuteronomy 7:20) refer to the F/A-18C Hornet aircraft that flew over Iraq.

Livestock refers to all the related Iraqi military vehicles (that were destroyed on the Baghdad highway).

Boils refers to fire burns, and the irritations due to the PGW Syndrome (ie. from Iraqi chemical weapons).

Hail refers to the falling bombs from the F-117A Stealth fighters and other Coalition bombers.

Locusts refer to the swarming of Coalition ground force troops (and tanks) from February 24 1991.

Darkness refers to the black oil smoke from the 732 oil fires set by retreating Iraqi troops in Kuwait.

Firstborn refers to the Kurdish Muslim population of Iraq that were then attacked by the Iraqi troops.
(The descendants of the firstborn child of Abraham, Ishmael, became the Muslims.)

- - - - - - -

The locusts of Revelations 9:3 are fully described in 9:7-10, 17;
And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of menAnd they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle. And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tailsand out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

Locusts = military tanks that are armoured (iron breastplates), have a crew (faces of men), that have a lot of horse-power and make a loud engine noise (sound of chariots), fire a projectile (in an issue of fire and smoke) from the front cannon, and fires bullets from the rear machine gun (stings from its tail).

It is reported that Jesus "turned the tables' in the Temple - meaning he turned the cd-roms on the oracle apparatus.

I have checked the Greek section of Strong's Concordance for Matthew 21:12 and Mark 11:15 and have not found any etymological associations to support this claim using the Greek language.

But, using the ancient Green language decoding techniques such as Homonyms (that were first used by the Greeks) and taking into account that (as far as Mr Pegg is concerned) a computer system and the cd-roms were used in the Jerusalem Temple (before being taken to Rome in 70AD), I can see how "turning the tables" can represent a cd-rom turning when the Hebrew etymology for these words is used, instead of the Greek words and interpretations of 1,230 years later.

cf. Exodus 31:18 - "two tables of testimony, tables of stone", where "tables (3871)" = a polished tablet or plate {referring to a glistening plate}.

What type of glistening polished plate was in the ark (box) of the covenent ?
H-word 1285 "covenant" means 'a compact' !

The version of Christianity (Judaism ?) that Jesus was teaching was side-tracked by the Gospels' versions of events written up 40 to 90 years later in the Greek New Testament, and later further changed by the Roman Empire, and then also by the subsequent Holy Roman Church - which created the 'trinity' concept etc.

query -- I don't see what this has to do with the topic we're discussing.

This forum is about errors in the Bible's interpretations.
I was trying to pint out that even in the first century AD (as John of Revelations was also warning) the Roman 'system' was not only changing religious perceptions (of Judaism), but also the meanings of the words from the Old Testament to reflect their 'new' ideas about religion - a 'son of god' and a 'mother of god' for example.
They also changed and added some words to the Greek NT writings, and thus we have the beginning of the "covering over" of the original Hebrew (and some Greek) meanings by the religious scribes who wrote the 'Vulgate'.
Sorry, I did not express myself too well on this one.

Arachnophilia writes:

A lot of hebrew words in the OT come from other languages. they borrowed alot. why are no words from english, if a time traveller showed all of these people things from an english cd-rom? how come there are no hebrew-izations of words like "cd-rom" "computer" "disk" etc? does this or anything similar appear anywhere in the bible?

The cd-rom was available in several languages, German, English, French, and Italian.
A very good question - but hebrew-ization words may be in any one of these languages.
I will add this to the list of investigations I intend to do. Thanks.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 06-29-2004 6:08 PM One_Charred_Wing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 07-01-2004 9:20 PM Eddy Pengelly has responded
 Message 111 by arachnophilia, posted 07-01-2004 10:08 PM Eddy Pengelly has not yet responded

  
One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 4201 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 110 of 117 (120991)
07-01-2004 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Eddy Pengelly
07-01-2004 12:32 PM


Eddy Pengelly writes:

Please don't shoot me, I am only presenting you the evidence of which you ask, as written by Mr Pegg. (extraction used with permission)

No worries, I'm not attacking you. When I employ harsh skepticism it's directed at the statement and not the person unless I state otherwise.

As for the thing about revalations, so far I've got no evidence that the computer was even around, so while the descriptions remotely resemble these modern weapons, that just seems to be evidence that these prophets were for real.

What type of glistening polished plate was in the ark (box) of the covenent ?
H-word 1285 "covenant" means 'a compact' !

Was there a polished plate in the ark of the covenant? On top of that, was there an ark of the covenant? The majority of this forum will tell you that the Great Flood was centralized if it happened at all. That is, the World Wide Flood didn't happen from evidence shown so far.

This forum is about errors in the Bible's interpretations.
I was trying to pint out that even in the first century AD (as John of Revelations was also warning) the Roman 'system' was not only changing religious perceptions (of Judaism), but also the meanings of the words from the Old Testament to reflect their 'new' ideas about religion - a 'son of god' and a 'mother of god' for example.
They also changed and added some words to the Greek NT writings, and thus we have the beginning of the "covering over" of the original Hebrew (and some Greek) meanings by the religious scribes who wrote the 'Vulgate'.

I agree. Obviously it'd get torqued around by the romans and many others. But that doesn't hold anything for the case of the "E Oracle."

The cd-rom was available in several languages, German, English, French, and Italian.
A very good question - but hebrew-ization words may be in any one of these languages.
I will add this to the list of investigations I intend to do. Thanks.

No problem. But... is German derived from Hebrew at all? The Latin languages may be suspect, but I'm pretty sure Germanic origins are purely anglo-saxon.


Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit. http://www.BadPreacher.5u.com (incomplete, but look anyway!)
This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Eddy Pengelly, posted 07-01-2004 12:32 PM Eddy Pengelly has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Eddy Pengelly, posted 07-08-2004 1:33 PM One_Charred_Wing has responded

    
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 24 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 111 of 117 (121011)
07-01-2004 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Eddy Pengelly
07-01-2004 12:32 PM


Plagues of War.

there's a problem with this. there's descriptions of wars all throughout the ot, and the torah. they knew what war was.

rivers rarely turn to blood, but i'll grant you this one.

however, amphibious vehicles don't look like frogs. ground forces don't look like lice (which aren't usually visible to the human eye, btw)

f/a-18's don't look, fly, or manuever like flies. nor do they attack in swarms, but small units.

iraqi cars don't look like ox.

you can have the boils argument.

hail doesn't explode when it hits, just makes nasty dents in things. i doubt they were bombs that brought down entire buildings.

locusts swarm in the air, not the ground, although they do land and trample each other. however, ground troops don't fly around much.

darkness is yours.

Firstborn refers to the Kurdish Muslim population of Iraq that were then attacked by the Iraqi troops.
(The descendants of the firstborn child of Abraham, Ishmael, became the Muslims.)

it's talking about pharoah's firstborn. if hussein = pharoah, then this part is wrong, because we got his first born in THIS war on iraq.

The location of Egypt in biblical times included all of the countries of the Egyptian Empire that stretched from the river Nile across to the Euphrates river. This included the two countries of Iraq and Kuwait. So literally, the Pharaoh was the leader of (what is now) Iraq and Kuwait.

the egypt of biblical times is roughly where it is today. an interesting fact: egypt never occupied babylon, which is where baghdad, in iraq, is today. thought they did at one point occupy canaan (where israel is today).

and even assuming they did, no one would call hussien the pharoah of egypt. they'd call him the king of babylon: heylel - "lucifer" in latin.

I have checked the Greek section of Strong's Concordance for Matthew 21:12 and Mark 11:15 and have not found any etymological associations to support this claim using the Greek language.

your claim not mine.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Eddy Pengelly, posted 07-01-2004 12:32 PM Eddy Pengelly has not yet responded

  
Eddy Pengelly
Inactive Member


Message 112 of 117 (123008)
07-08-2004 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by One_Charred_Wing
07-01-2004 9:20 PM


The majority of this forum will tell you that the Great Flood was centralized if it happened at all. That is, the World Wide Flood didn't happen from evidence shown so far.

The mythical "great flood" recounted in many ancient cultures = the earth {Map Page from the Ancients cd-rom} being overwhelmed by the "sea and sky" page.
This has also given rise to the Atlantis myth - the island {earth map}(and {Etruscan} city) beneath the "sea".

Arachnophilia writes:

There's descriptions of wars all throughout the OT, and the Torah.

Many of the accounts (and duplicate accounts) of a war = the 1990/1991 Persian Gulf War events that were told to various ancient people by a time traveller, but have been portrayed by them as ancient (Israeli) history.

RE: Plagues of War. comment - amphibious vehicles don't look like frogs; ground forces don't look like lice; f/a-18's don't look or manuever like flies.

"Amphibious vehicles" DO act like frogs - they move from water onto land.
"Ground forces" scurried around the desert like lice.
F/A-18s do fly. For seven continuous days, bombs fell from the sky "like hail" over Iraq (Jan 17-23 1991).

It's talking about pharoah's firstborn. If hussein = pharoah, then this part is wrong. And - no one would call hussien the pharoah of egypt

On the Map Page of the Ancients cd-rom a bust of Nefertiti appears over and for Egypt. They would have recognized Nefertiti as the wife of a (recent) Egyptian pharoah.
On the map page of the Grolier War presentation, President Hussein's picture is located over the Egyptian region (in reference to a future war).
As hussein = president (king), then hussein = pharoah (king), and hussein = muslim, then as first born of Pharoah = first born of Muslims = Kurdish Muslims.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 07-01-2004 9:20 PM One_Charred_Wing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 07-08-2004 3:38 PM Eddy Pengelly has responded

  
One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 4201 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 113 of 117 (123027)
07-08-2004 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Eddy Pengelly
07-08-2004 1:33 PM


Still has some kinks
The mythical "great flood" recounted in many ancient cultures = the earth {Map Page from the Ancients cd-rom} being overwhelmed by the "sea and sky" page.
This has also given rise to the Atlantis myth - the island {earth map}(and {Etruscan} city) beneath the "sea".

I'd like to know how many cultures recount the great flood because frankly I don't know of many that do. However, I'd like to know how the Noah thing and all that other stuff would spring from seeing this page. Granted, assuming a time travel thing happened in the first place(evidence and the discussion so far would strongly suggest it didn't), this is the most reasonable assumption of how an ancient would interpret this image so far. However, there's still the time travel happening and the Noah tales that need explaining.

Many of the accounts (and duplicate accounts) of a war = the 1990/1991 Persian Gulf War events that were told to various ancient people by a time traveller, but have been portrayed by them as ancient (Israeli) history.

Uh, despite the Bible being a biased account of things, there really were lots of the wars described in the Bible. Granted, not exactly like the Bible described, but there were wars.

"Amphibious vehicles" DO act like frogs - they move from water onto land.

But they don't look like frogs, do they? They're pretty big and they usually have a human gunner on top. Might they figure man-eating frogs or frogs controlled by humans? I don't think they'd ignore the gunner on top or the fact that they have a MACHINE GUN(Boom stick for ancients) on top.

F/A-18s do fly. For seven continuous days, bombs fell from the sky "like hail" over Iraq (Jan 17-23 1991).

I'm sorry, I can't see an ancient neglecting the fact that the hail exploded into flames upon contact with the ground, and might they notice the bombs coming from the bombers? They'd probably intrepret this as the 'locusts that drop hail that explodes' plague, not two separate ones.

As hussein = president (king), then hussein = pharoah (king), and hussein = muslim, then as first born of Pharoah = first born of Muslims = Kurdish Muslims.

Is it just me, or were the Revalations written before Islam was even founded? (What, 120 years after Christ?)That also means everything written before that was WAY before Muhammad's vision.(about 500 AD)

Also, I don't see how they would get Exodus out of this?


Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit. http://www.BadPreacher.5u.com (incomplete, but look anyway!)
This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Eddy Pengelly, posted 07-08-2004 1:33 PM Eddy Pengelly has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Eddy Pengelly, posted 07-12-2004 1:03 PM One_Charred_Wing has responded

    
Eddy Pengelly
Inactive Member


Message 114 of 117 (123947)
07-12-2004 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by One_Charred_Wing
07-08-2004 3:38 PM


The mythical "great flood" recounted in many ancient cultures = the earth {Map Page from the Ancients cd-rom} being overwhelmed by the "sea and sky" page.

clarification -- The "great flood" includes the 'water' and/or 'abyss' or 'great sea' or primeval cosmic ocean descriptions that are mentioned in various general ancient legends and Creation Myths from around the world - especially the ancient Middle East. In the general sequence of the 'creation', the "water" (flood) comes after the 'void' (blank black screen page) and the mentioning of the God or gods, and before the 'light' (wind-rose) and the 'earth' (map page).

This has also given rise to the Atlantis myth - the island {earth map}(and {Etruscan} city) beneath the "sea".

Just as the creation narration in the OT is a retelling of a similar older Babylonian account, the Egyptian 'Atlantis' tale is a similar telling of the Akkadian 'city beneath the sea' story. The Etruscan city's icon on the cd-rom is a Chimera (basically a LION).
Seen by biblical 'prophets', the biblical city of "Ariel" refers to the same LION city, as does the 'new Jerusalem' of the NT. {Ariel means 'lion of the gods.'}

The Akkadian and Atlantis 'island and city' concept being beneath the sea is also retold in the Greek story of

Ulysses and the Bag of Winds myth writes:

Long, long ago, there was a king by the name of Aeolus who lived on an island in the middle of the sea, far, far from land. Now this was no ordinary island like others, that are fixed in their place as a tree is rooted in the earth. This was a floating island, and it drifted serenely on the surface of the water like a galleon in full sail.
(Aeolus was the Guardian of the Winds.)
In the story, the men accompanying Ulysses in a sailing boat, opened a bag containing all the winds except the West Wind. Instead of reaching their intended destination of Ithaca, they found themselves back at the island of Aeolus (blown by the wind from the West).

'Opening the bag of winds' = clicking on the red wind-rose icon from the Sea/Sky page.
The "galleon in full sail" = the "sailing boat" = the 'galleon in full sail' that is seen on the Sea/Sky page.
"They found themselves back at the island" means that after each time they clicked on the "bag of winds" and visited a particular civilization from the Ancients cd-rom, they were returned to the Map Page (the 'earth' perceived as an island in the middle of the sea).

I'd like to know how the Noah..thing would spring from seeing this page (and all that other stuff).

Except for the general inclusion of the same descriptive imagery from earlier Genesis verses, I don't think Noah does. (It has a different 'hidden' historical meaning - see later.)
Just as the above different 'stories' all came from the same source, but have been described differently and from a particular perception of their local culture, the "Genesis story" includes imagery that was seen on the cd-rom, plus extra information that the story teller has added to make the story seem distinct to the Hebrew point of view.

So removing the cultural and religious perceptions and content and just concentrating on the 'things' being described, we find a particular sequence of events. Mr Pegg has matched these to the images from the Ancients cd-rom.

Let's examine Genesis 1:1 to 2:3 from the plain text to see where and how the ancient story teller described the sequences of images from the Ancients cd-rom.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning, gods, sky, earth = from the beginning, the (faces of five) gods, then the sky, then the land.

1:2 void, darkness = the blank, black screen in between pages. The "deep" = the sea. "Spirit of the gods hovering over the water" = the white sail-boat cursor hovering over the sea.

1:3 The light = the sun (ie. the red wind-rose).

1:6 Firmament divided from the waters = the sky above (divided from) the sea (waters).

1:8 Hebrew word 8064 "heaven" = sky. {This is where the 'spirit of the gods' is located.}

1:9 Under the heavens = below the sky page (ie. the next page). Watersgathered together = water not across all of the screen. Into the one place = within the basin of the Mediterranean coastline - ie, the sea. The dry appear = the dry land of the Map Page appears.

1:14-18 Reference to signs and seasons, stars, 'sun' and 'moon' = vague reference to the astronomical cd-rom RedShift2.

1:20 Birds above the earth = the grey 'back' arrow at the top above the map on the Map Page (earth).

1:24 Living creatures on the earth = the heading icons on the map (land): "cattle" = the she-wolf (calf) icon for the Roman Empire: "creeping thing' = the spirally thing = capital icon of the Greek. "Beast" aka 'king of the beasts' = the lion icon of the Etruscan civ.

1:26 Then God said 'let us make man in our image, according to our likeness' {notice the plural 'our' referring to the technical plural "gods"} = let's put man icons {the faces on the map page} exactly like the god faces from the introduction sequence.

1:27 The male and female image of God in His image = the two male Phoenician Head icons for Carthage and Phoenicia plus the female Nefertiti for Egypt = the Phoenician and Nefertiti faces from the "gods" sequence that appear on the Map Page.

Genesis 2:4 This the history of the heavens and the earth = an announcement that the 'history' (sequence descriptions) of the two cd-roms RedShift2 (heavens) and Ancients (earth) have concluded.

2:5 Before = before these two cd-roms were viewed.

2:8-9 and 2:17 tree of knowledge = the "knowledge tree" icon from the Grolier cd-rom.

2:10-14 = the physical descriptions of the four Persian Gulf rivers as seen from a map of the Middle East from the Grolier cd-rom. This sets the location of the biblical War theme - note that it is not Israel, but Iraq. This introduces the Persian Gulf War theme.

Genesis 3:8 & 10 They heard the sound of god in the garden = they heard the narrator's voice from the Iraq / PGW presentation from the Grolier cd-rom.

The story teller has mixed up and overlapped imagery from the cd-roms, here and elsewhere in the Bible.
Genesis 3:24 The garden of Eden = Kuwait, on the map as seen on the Grolier map. A flaming sword which turned every way = the red wind-rose whose spikes look like red swords from the ancients cd-rom.

The 'years' genealogy of Genesis chapter 5 represents "days", and derives the number of days between May 14 1949 and June 27 1992 which is the day before Michael Drosnin was first introduced to the E.L.S. code. This introduces the 'Bible Code' theme that runs through the surface text of the Bible. {Don't ask, its a long story. For specific info on this, see Mr Pegg's "Encoded Text Historical Information (BC people)" section in his "Origins" booklet that you can download from the pphcstudygroup's web site.}

Genesis 6:3 provides a time period in which the 'white sail-boat' cursor (the "spirit" of the gods) will not be seen, being 120 years.
BUT the 'promised land' (being Israel) is documented {somewhere} in the Bible as being within Cannan (Palestine) and is a Time Key (as Mr Pegg calls it). This 'new homeland for Israel' historically occurred in November 1947 when the U.N. approved the partition of Palestine.
So taking 120 years from 1947 derives 1827 - the year Joseph Smith viewed the Ancients cd-rom.
Bits of historical associations and events appear throughout the Bible stories like this - and are intertwined with the various Themes and stated Time Keys.

Now, back to the Noah question.
Genesis 6:14 In Strong's Concordance H-word 8392 "ark" says 'a box' perhaps of foreign derivation. So it is not a floating boat as we have been led to believe. Mr Pegg concludes that as ancient Egyptians knew what boats and boxes were, this "box" was something that they did not know about - a computer CPU or monitor maybe - the keyboard ?

6:15 Unless the 300 should be 30 cubits, making a 'box' 30 x 30 x 50 cm which is almost the size of a 1990s vga monitor, I can not see a piece of computer equipment that fits these dimensions. Unless the "rooms" from 6:14 are within the 'box' of the window in 6:16.

6:16 A window in a box with a door, with three sections = the Windows File Manager window in the monitor box with an entrance.
The "door" = the entrance to the cd-rom = the highlighted mediterr.exe file in the File Manager's file window.
Mr Pegg links this to the 1 Kings 7:4-5 description. (See separate post.)

Genesis chapters 7-9 inclusive contain 'hidden' Persian Gulf War data.
{Don't ask, its a very long complicated report. For specific info on this, see Mr Pegg's "Genesis 5:3 to 9:28" section (p510) in his "Addendum" booklet #4 that you can download from the pphcstudygroup's web site.}

As hussein = president (king), then hussein = pharoah (king), and hussein = muslim, then as first born of Pharoah = first born of Muslims = Kurdish Muslims.

query -- Is it just me, or were the Revalations written before Islam was even founded? That also means everything written before that was WAY before Muhammad's vision.(about 500 AD)

The "firstborn refers to Esau (being the firstborn of Isaac) and by association the ancient Muslim Faith, and by further association the modern Iraqis, just as Jacob is associated with the Hebrew Faith and Israel.

Also, I don't see how they would get Exodus out of this?

It was the Kurdish Iraqis who were attacked by Saddam Hussein after the 1991 PGW and left the country (an exodus) and went 'into the mountains' of Turkey.

The Bible not only contains the descriptions from the cd-roms, and info about the E.L.S. code, but PGW information (including the consequence - the Kurdish exodus) 'hidden' beneath the surface text and religious translation - linked by time keys, event descriptions, and astronomical events.
Historically and chronologically, all these events happened after 'the promised land of Israel' was declared by the United Nations in 1947.
As Mr Pegg says, "The Bible is a modern history book".

Somehow, all this information was made available to ancient people, who wrote about it as if it was their own past (and sometimes future) history.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 07-08-2004 3:38 PM One_Charred_Wing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 07-13-2004 5:28 PM Eddy Pengelly has responded

  
One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 4201 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 115 of 117 (124271)
07-13-2004 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Eddy Pengelly
07-12-2004 1:03 PM


The mythical "great flood" recounted in many ancient cultures = the earth {Map Page from the Ancients cd-rom} being overwhelmed by the "sea and sky" page.

clarification -- The "great flood" includes the 'water' and/or 'abyss' or 'great sea' or primeval cosmic ocean descriptions that are mentioned in various general ancient legends and Creation Myths from around the world - especially the ancient Middle East. In the general sequence of the 'creation', the "water" (flood) comes after the 'void' (blank black screen page) and the mentioning of the God or gods, and before the 'light' (wind-rose) and the 'earth' (map page).

Once again, the faults in the time travel concept (Source: A Brief History of Time)already negates this possiblity until I see evidence otherwise. And also, just because a CD rom depicts something does that automatically mean the alledged time traveller took it back with him? How would we know, did we meet this time traveller?

I'm sorry, I'll need to see some evidence that the alledged time traveller took this CD back. A single coincidence isn't enough to catch my attention. Sounds like a corny sci-fi plot.(I realize it's redundant to call a sci-fi plot corny.)

Just as the above different 'stories' all came from the same source, but have been described differently and from a particular perception of their local culture, the "Genesis story" includes imagery that was seen on the cd-rom, plus extra information that the story teller has added to make the story seem distinct to the Hebrew point of view.

Or it could show how much we all have in common that our stories across cultures are similar, and the different touches just depended on the author. Just because a CD depicts some events that sound like a story doesn't mean a time traveller went back and inpired the tale. You agree with that much, right?

The "firstborn refers to Esau (being the firstborn of Isaac) and by association the ancient Muslim Faith, and by further association the modern Iraqis, just as Jacob is associated with the Hebrew Faith and Israel.

This doesn't answer my question. I asked how they would associate it with Muslims when Muslims weren't around when the Revalations were written?


Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit. http://www.BadPreacher.5u.com (incomplete, but look anyway!)
This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Eddy Pengelly, posted 07-12-2004 1:03 PM Eddy Pengelly has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Eddy Pengelly, posted 07-14-2004 5:56 AM One_Charred_Wing has not yet responded

    
Eddy Pengelly
Inactive Member


Message 116 of 117 (124414)
07-14-2004 5:56 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by One_Charred_Wing
07-13-2004 5:28 PM


I'll need to see some evidence that the alleged time traveller took this CD back.

Me too. Other options that I would consider based upon accounts given by the various 'prophets' having their encounter with the 'messenger' (angel) would be:
- The 'bright light' around the messenger may indicate a holographic projection (from the future).
- The 'dream' state may refer to the person being given the information 'in his mind' while asleep.
- "I was taken to the city" (or similar) may indicate the 'prophet' was brought forward in time.

In any one of these, the 'prophet' may have seen the messenger show this cd-rom.

But starting to think about "how" will take me away from examining the written evidence contained in ancient texts, both at the surface text level, and in the word's etymologies. I wish to examine what I can personally get hold of and read - and not speculate about things that are beyond my current understanding - such as how would a time machine be built, and how would it work, and why the time traveller did or didn't do something, or why he did or didn't say something, etc.

A single coincidence isn't enough to catch my attention.

To which single one of the coincidences that Mr Pegg presents in his works do you refer ?
The sequence of images that match to the Anmcients cd-rom from:
Genesis,
Daniel,
Ezekiel,
Revelations,
or from any one of a dozen legends from around the world,
or from the Atlantis, Akkadian and Sumerian myths,
or from the Koran, or from the Book of Mormon.

If Mr Pegg had just presented "a single coincidence" as you say, I would not be that interested myself.
But he has presented around 25 individual examples from all around the world, from different times.

To me, 25 'coincidences' is past just brushing off his claims as being sci-fi.

Just because a CD depicts some events that sound like a story doesn't mean a time traveller went back and inspired the tale. You agree with that much, right?

Before I read the volume of evidence presented by Mr Pegg I may have agreed with you, but I look at it this way:
Religious people and scholars have not been able to present evidence that the "God" of the Bible or of the Koran or of any of the other ancient and present faiths existed - except to disagree among themselves that each other have 'got it wrong' - or to agree that somewhere in the past, they are all talking about the same entity (God) that 'created' the world etc., so it doesn't really matter that they call him something different.

Mr Pegg claims that he has found the link, or the source of the ancient accounts that have led to the religious stories in the first place - albeit linked to time travel.
Modern technology is close to understanding 'time travel', but 3,000 years has past and there is still no evidence of the God of the religious stories.

To put your question into perspective - Just because the Bible depicts some events that sound like a story doesn't mean "God" (as described in those same stories) inspired the tale. You agree with that much, right?

About the plagues of Egypt, I said

Firstborn refers to the Kurdish Muslim population of Iraq that were then attacked by the Iraqi troops.
(The descendants of the firstborn child of Abraham, Ishmael, became the Muslims.)
-- then --
On the Map Page of the Ancients cd-rom a bust of Nefertiti appears over and for Egypt. They would have recognized Nefertiti as the wife of a (recent) Egyptian pharoah.
On the map page of the Grolier War presentation, President Hussein's picture is located over the Egyptian region (in reference to a future war).
As hussein = president (king), then hussein = pharoah (king), and hussein = muslim, then first born of Pharoah = first born of Muslims = Kurdish Muslims.
-- and then --
The "firstborn refers to Esau (being the firstborn of Isaac) and by association the ancient Muslim Faith, and by further association the modern Iraqis, just as Jacob is associated with the Hebrew Faith and modern Israel.

Born2Preach writes:

I asked how they would associate it with Muslims when Muslims weren't around when the Revalations were written?

Sorry, I may have confused you.
They {meaning the ancient people}, when they saw the picture of Saddam Hussein over the Egyptian region of the map from the Grolier presentation, took this man to be the king of Egypt (called a pharoah) - because his picture was over Egypt, just as in the Ancients cd-rom the image of Nefertiti is over Egypt.
This is where I used the pharoah = king, and Egypt = Iraq/Kuwait analogies.

They viewed the PGW presentation and understood that this man "would not let the people of the red land go", being Kuwait (which is coloured red on the map).
Historically, Iraq annexed Kuwait and would not hand it back.
The various elements of the war have been described in the Bible as the plagues of war, and represent what was seen and heard from the audio/visual animated presentation (as I presented in a previous post).

After the PGW ceased, Iraq then attacked its own Kurdish population, and forced them to exodus into the Turkish mountains.
The "firstborn" analogy refers to the ancient Esau association as explained above (to which the writers of the Hebrew text would have been aware), and not the present Muslims (of the 600AD era).

It was the ancient Hebrews with knowledge of the Esau story who made the association of the man's image over Egypt (who would not let the people of the red land have their land back) = the pharoah of Egypt (as related in the biblical story).

The modern Muslim and Revelations links do not come into it from the perspective of those ancient people.
But it is from our perspective that we can associate the Iraqi Muslims (sons of Esau) = firstborn. {historical and religious hind-sight}

While the PGW story is also independently described in Revelations (due to a separate visitation by a Time Traveller), I do not see how or why you have linked this, or what it has to do with the specific Hebrew story of the plagues that I was describing.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 07-13-2004 5:28 PM One_Charred_Wing has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by arachnophilia, posted 07-14-2004 6:26 AM Eddy Pengelly has not yet responded

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 24 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 117 of 117 (124418)
07-14-2004 6:26 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by Eddy Pengelly
07-14-2004 5:56 AM


Other options that I would consider based upon accounts given by the various 'prophets' having their encounter with the 'messenger' (angel) would be:
- The 'bright light' around the messenger may indicate a holographic projection (from the future).
- The 'dream' state may refer to the person being given the information 'in his mind' while asleep.
- "I was taken to the city" (or similar) may indicate the 'prophet' was brought forward in time.

you're missing a few. try reading "the origin of consciousness in the breakdown of the bicameral mind" by julian jaynes. he asserts that people were just basically hallucinatory back then, and backs it up with both archaeology and psychology.

The sequence of images that match to the Anmcients cd-rom from:
Genesis,
Daniel,
Ezekiel,
Revelations,
or from any one of a dozen legends from around the world,
or from the Atlantis, Akkadian and Sumerian myths,
or from the Koran, or from the Book of Mormon.

i don't see enough correlation between any of those to correlate them to something else, including a randomly picked cd from the future. in fact, i see very little coincidence in your evidence. i mean, maybe if it depicted exactly what the story said. but it doesn't. you have to twist everything to fit, and i bet you could do it equally as well with ANYTHING else.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Eddy Pengelly, posted 07-14-2004 5:56 AM Eddy Pengelly has not yet responded

  
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