Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 87 (8927 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 08-23-2019 10:16 AM
35 online now:
AZPaul3, Faith, JonF, Percy (Admin), RAZD, Stile, Theodoric (7 members, 28 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: Jedothek
Post Volume:
Total: 860,280 Year: 15,316/19,786 Month: 2,039/3,058 Week: 413/404 Day: 17/63 Hour: 4/8


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
1
23456
...
12NextFF
Author Topic:   What if Jesus and Satan were real?
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 226 of 591 (725935)
05-04-2014 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Yaro
01-25-2004 8:52 PM


Re: Satan
Yaro,

Yaro writes:

So god created evil?
Ya... I remember that can of worms

Ya know, for a god who hates evil so much, he sure made alot of it.

Where does it state that God (God of the bible) created evil? In my understanding God created free beings that in utilizing their freedom chose to commit evil acts. If God chose to create beings that could not do evil that would mean they are not free beings.

Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Yaro, posted 01-25-2004 8:52 PM Yaro has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by ringo, posted 05-04-2014 4:39 PM Blue has responded
 Message 235 by frako, posted 05-04-2014 7:23 PM Blue has responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 229 of 591 (725938)
05-04-2014 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by Thugpreacha
04-23-2014 1:31 PM


Re: Reasons For Belief
Phat,

You have to realize the people in your current discussion clearly don't understand biblical record or if they do they don't accept it, nor do they seem to appreciate a revelation from God. Most likely, based on what I am seeing they are the people who believe in everything from nothing. Moving forward, I would like to communicate that I absolutely agree with you Phat. I have also had plenty of revelations from God. You're not alone in receiving revelations from God. This is not a science, this is the supernatural. IF science could explain it, it has yet to explain it. These are personal experiences that are meant to be personal experiences too. Anyone who has read Matthew 6:5-6 would understand that.

5 And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.

6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."


Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Thugpreacha, posted 04-23-2014 1:31 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by MFFJM2, posted 05-04-2014 11:20 PM Blue has responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 231 of 591 (725942)
05-04-2014 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by Thugpreacha
05-04-2014 3:40 PM


Re: Reasons For Belief
Phat,

Phat writes:

He only begins to give us the desires of our heart once our heart is transformed...by Him....and we no longer live for ourselves but for Him.

I disagree with you on this point, at least with what you are communicating, you need to quote verses otherwise the logic behind what you are saying can't be argumentatively biblical. Using verses from the bible does help in cooling and limiting rules of engagement on a topic.

Example:
In my view God does reward but it is always within his judgement, within his will. IT is not completely (not selfish at all but I kept it in the context for those who feel it is selfish) selfish because God is granting to give you eternal life, but within the confine of what a ultimate being would decide is good/bad. God rewards based on the freedom/desire to do his will. ALSO it is not us being transformed by him. IT is you being transformed by you.

IF I don't quote any verses to support the above, it is not biblical argumentatively. It is just my vantage. While I can believe it is biblical, which is why I would claim it, I am not doing a good job of communicating biblical points. People will argue back and forth this way for hours. IT is very useful to atheists but very useless for theists. You have to bring them onto the same ground by using verses. Don't go into their territory and debate logic using their logic in biblical points. They don't have the same logic. Using verses limits the argument to that verse.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Clearly in the above verse this is not Jesus forcing you to change. He is just merely speaking to you. Explaining to you the path to God. IT is still your choice.


Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Thugpreacha, posted 05-04-2014 3:40 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 232 of 591 (725943)
05-04-2014 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by ringo
05-04-2014 4:39 PM


Re: Satan
Ringo,

You quote the verse in the KJV. There are various other versions. I would conclude that what is meant by evil in the KJV, or ra' in the original language is "calamity" due to the context of the prior and following verses. The commentary also leads us down the path in understanding that "evil" or ra' is mere punishment. Again calamity is what is meant in that verse.

Here is a list of other translations:

http://biblehub.com/isaiah/45-7.htm

45:7 NASB The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.

45:7 NIV I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Here is a Hebrew Lexicon with the definition of ra'. It has several meanings.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?S...

Edited by Blue, : Verses

Edited by Blue, : Link

Edited by Blue, : Err

Edited by Blue, : Err


Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by ringo, posted 05-04-2014 4:39 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 233 by ringo, posted 05-04-2014 5:51 PM Blue has responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 234 of 591 (725945)
05-04-2014 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by ringo
05-04-2014 5:51 PM


Re: Satan
ringo,

Personally I would listen to GOD as to what is evil. Feel free to pray on it OR if that is to difficult for you, lets review history.

Edited by Blue, : Add

Edited by Blue, : Err


Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by ringo, posted 05-04-2014 5:51 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by MFFJM2, posted 05-04-2014 10:57 PM Blue has responded
 Message 242 by ringo, posted 05-05-2014 11:39 AM Blue has responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 236 of 591 (725952)
05-04-2014 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by frako
05-04-2014 7:23 PM


Re: Satan
The only evil that is written about in the Bible, as far as I know, is relative to human beings. I don't think Christ died for bugs to be saved for their sins. I think you need to ask your self this question. Can man decide what is evil, or should god decide what is evil? Man? Or the creator of living things? IF your answer is man should be the decision maker, then what is morality? Is morality just a vote? Is morality a dictation from a powerful man? Is morality money? Honestly, seems rather arrogant for man to decide man is the ultimate being within 400 light years (hawking).

Edited by Blue, : Add

Edited by Blue, : Add


Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by frako, posted 05-04-2014 7:23 PM frako has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 243 by ringo, posted 05-05-2014 11:47 AM Blue has responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 239 of 591 (725957)
05-05-2014 1:11 AM
Reply to: Message 237 by MFFJM2
05-04-2014 10:57 PM


Re: Satan
MFFJM2 writes:

Is that because you lack a moral compass of your own..? If you have no morality except for what God gives you how do you know God is good..? Was slavery good, because God approved of it..? What about child abuse, human sacrifice, genocide, murder, rape, pillage, to mention just a few..? Are you suggesting that these things are moral, because your God supports all of them.

I don't have time to pick through your list of rubbish, but I will argue a few of them. I will take time later to argue the other points if I must. Please post your sources for "child abuse, human sacrifice, genocide, murder, rape, pillage" if you wish to argue them.

I do draw morality from within the bible but this does not mean I don't have a sense of current cultural morality. Honestly a huge list, if not all, of moral things I disagree with or agree with are congruent from within biblical terms. One could argue that I learned those moral rules because of culture, or one could argue that I just feel this way. In both cases neither is proof that we don't draw moral codes without God. We can't prove, if we have some instinctual moral code that it is not from God. Why evil occurs (from an atheist vantage) is not proven. This is actually a huge topic but I will leave that for you to think about.

As for slavery in the bible, slaves under hebrew/jewish law were treated very well. In fact most of them were treated better than those slaves here in the USA to the 17 trillion dollar debt/the elite/corp. IF you think Americans are free you are insane. We are privileged. And it is only a matter of time before those great privileges are reduced. I always love it when they use LAW to give freedom. LOL.

MFFJM2 writes:

Prayer is a waste of time, even if you believe in your deity, and a colossal waste of time if you don't.

Not in my life. Prayer has been extremely helpful. I don't ask for to much, most of the time it is thank you. I will say I am blessed on so many levels. It is very strange how well life has gone.

MFFJM2 writes:

Mumbling a few words to yourself is not difficult in the least, but it is a waste of time. Please provide your evidence for the efficacy of prayer.

How about you prove you are mumbling a few words to your self. Oh wait, you cant prove it. Even on a scientific level you could form a theory. I would love to see a theory that shows prayer is useless. My evidence has been given to me, all through my life. Seems like Phat agrees. Perhaps the other 33%/or 2.3 billion of 7 billion people on planet earth are crazy to believe in the power of prayer to Christ. I don't need to provide it to you. IF you want to see how prayer can help you, you need to pray with all your heart showing that God and Christ do exist. IF you pray without thinking those things, it is pointless. Perhaps that is your problem. If you don't know how to pray look below. Let me remind you, those faithful people permeate all parts of society from the average person to those working in physics, running companies, etc.

Matt 6:9-13
6 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

11 Give us this day our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

MFFJM2 writes:

Sure, what history would you like to review..? How about the lack of historical evidence for Moses..?

Like that of Alexander The Great? We have no more proof of Alexander The Great than we do for Moses. Even if there was more evidence, it is still just an argument.

You do know that lack of evidence does not compute to does not exist. Perhaps you didn't realize that evidence is not proof? Take for example the fossil record. Maybe God created life via evolution? My point, evidence does not speak, it is interpreted based on other evidence that is known. Then over time, those interpretations change. I always love it when they realize we don't know where the universe came from. We are lost. I also love it when they claim they know where the universe came from. You do know that inflation is a joke, just like the bb. There is absolutely no evidence for inflation. If you need help finding the information for my claims just ask. Look up the electric universe/thunderbolts.info. Refer to their interpretations of the cosmic microwave background radiation and further their interpretations of redshift or the doppler effect.

Edited by Blue, : err

Edited by Blue, : err

Edited by Blue, : err


Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by MFFJM2, posted 05-04-2014 10:57 PM MFFJM2 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by MFFJM2, posted 05-06-2014 10:56 AM Blue has not yet responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 240 of 591 (725958)
05-05-2014 1:28 AM
Reply to: Message 238 by MFFJM2
05-04-2014 11:20 PM


Re: Reasons For Belief
Ok. I can see your nutz. Done talking to you.

Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by MFFJM2, posted 05-04-2014 11:20 PM MFFJM2 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by Raphael, posted 05-05-2014 3:31 AM Blue has responded
 Message 255 by Pressie, posted 05-06-2014 1:04 AM Blue has responded
 Message 257 by MFFJM2, posted 05-06-2014 11:00 AM Blue has responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 244 of 591 (726021)
05-05-2014 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 242 by ringo
05-05-2014 11:39 AM


Re: Satan
ringo writes:

How do you know you can trust God

You learn to trust God via prayer/revelation.


Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by ringo, posted 05-05-2014 11:39 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-05-2014 9:25 PM Blue has responded
 Message 261 by ringo, posted 05-06-2014 11:36 AM Blue has responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 245 of 591 (726022)
05-05-2014 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by ringo
05-05-2014 11:47 AM


Re: Satan
The verse you speak of is explaining that all people are judged by the law regardless of their belief. If man is gentile, or believer and does or doesn't follow the law he or she is judged by the law. Weather or not the law is in their hearts is just a point that even gentiles will follow the law not knowing it persay. If we take that further it does not quantify to God granting man to disobey God's law without judgement, even if society is writing a law. So as long as that is understood, man WILL and CAN decide.

Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by ringo, posted 05-05-2014 11:47 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by ringo, posted 05-06-2014 11:40 AM Blue has responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 247 of 591 (726032)
05-05-2014 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 246 by New Cat's Eye
05-05-2014 9:25 PM


Re: Satan
Instinct. It's a deep deep feeling I get when revelation is received. Billions can corroborate my claims. If you are trying to argue knowledge is supreme, there is no knowledge in God. What we have is belief, not different than atheism.

Edited by Blue, : Add

Edited by Blue, : Add

Edited by Blue, : Err


Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-05-2014 9:25 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-05-2014 9:31 PM Blue has responded
 Message 250 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-05-2014 9:43 PM Blue has responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 249 of 591 (726034)
05-05-2014 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 248 by New Cat's Eye
05-05-2014 9:31 PM


Re: Satan
Did you know that Genesis 1 is confirmed by Science? Written thousands of years before Scientific confirmation.

{Not even close to on-topic. - Adminnemooseus}

Edited by Blue, : Err

Edited by Blue, : Err

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Off-topic banner and comment.


Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-05-2014 9:31 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 251 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-05-2014 9:45 PM Blue has responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 252 of 591 (726039)
05-05-2014 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by New Cat's Eye
05-05-2014 9:45 PM


Re: Satan
IT actually feeds the mouth of your question.

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Off-topic banner.


Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-05-2014 9:45 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 253 of 591 (726040)
05-05-2014 10:27 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by New Cat's Eye
05-05-2014 9:43 PM


Re: Satan
I know because of revelation.

You know how gravity works right? This does not mean you know the theory, it just means you understand how gravity works. This is the same for revelations. They are much different than coincidences. They are answers to questions, or at least the revelations I receive are answers to questions. I have received perfect answers to questions. I was about to explain one of them to you but apparently that is off topic.


Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-05-2014 9:43 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by ringo, posted 05-06-2014 11:44 AM Blue has responded
 Message 265 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-06-2014 12:54 PM Blue has responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 254 of 591 (726046)
05-05-2014 11:59 PM
Reply to: Message 241 by Raphael
05-05-2014 3:31 AM


Re: Reasons For Belief
I appreciate the welcome. I was not giving up. I was choosing not to have a discussion. I don't care enough to have that conversation for it to be considered giving up.

Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by Raphael, posted 05-05-2014 3:31 AM Raphael has not yet responded

  
1
23456
...
12NextFF
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019