Summations Only

Yaro, Where does it state that God (God of the bible) created evil? In my understanding God created free beings that in utilizing their freedom chose to commit evil acts. If God chose to create beings that could not do evil that would mean they are not free beings.SincerelyBlue

Phat,You have to realize the people in your current discussion clearly don't understand biblical record or if they do they don't accept it, nor do they seem to appreciate a revelation from God. Most likely, based on what I am seeing they are the people who believe in everything from nothing. Moving forward, I would like to communicate that I absolutely agree with you Phat. I have also had plenty of revelations from God. You're not alone in receiving revelations from God. This is not a science, this is the supernatural. IF science could explain it, it has yet to explain it. These are personal experiences that are meant to be personal experiences too. Anyone who has read Matthew 6:5-6 would understand that. 5 And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.

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6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

Phat, I disagree with you on this point, at least with what you are communicating, you need to quote verses otherwise the logic behind what you are saying can't be argumentatively biblical. Using verses from the bible does help in cooling and limiting rules of engagement on a topic.Example:
In my view God does reward but it is always within his judgement, within his will. IT is not completely (not selfish at all but I kept it in the context for those who feel it is selfish) selfish because God is granting to give you eternal life, but within the confine of what a ultimate being would decide is good/bad. God rewards based on the freedom/desire to do his will. ALSO it is not us being transformed by him. IT is you being transformed by you.IF I don't quote any verses to support the above, it is not biblical argumentatively. It is just my vantage. While I can believe it is biblical, which is why I would claim it, I am not doing a good job of communicating biblical points. People will argue back and forth this way for hours. IT is very useful to atheists but very useless for theists. You have to bring them onto the same ground by using verses. Don't go into their territory and debate logic using their logic in biblical points. They don't have the same logic. Using verses limits the argument to that verse. John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.Clearly in the above verse this is not Jesus forcing you to change. He is just merely speaking to you. Explaining to you the path to God. IT is still your choice.

Ringo,You quote the verse in the KJV. There are various other versions. I would conclude that what is meant by evil in the KJV, or ra' in the original language is "calamity" due to the context of the prior and following verses. The commentary also leads us down the path in understanding that "evil" or ra' is mere punishment. Again calamity is what is meant in that verse.Here is a list of other translations:Isaiah 45:7 I form the light and create the darkness; I bring prosperity and create calamity. I, the LORD, do all these things. 45:7 NASB The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.

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45:7 NIV I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

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45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

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Here is a Hebrew Lexicon with the definition of ra'. It has several meanings.H7451 - ra - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (nasb20)Edited by Blue, : VersesEdited by Blue, : LinkEdited by Blue, : ErrEdited by Blue, : Err

ringo,Personally I would listen to GOD as to what is evil. Feel free to pray on it OR if that is to difficult for you, lets review history.Edited by Blue, : AddEdited by Blue, : Err

The only evil that is written about in the Bible, as far as I know, is relative to human beings. I don't think Christ died for bugs to be saved for their sins. I think you need to ask your self this question. Can man decide what is evil, or should god decide what is evil? Man? Or the creator of living things? IF your answer is man should be the decision maker, then what is morality? Is morality just a vote? Is morality a dictation from a powerful man? Is morality money? Honestly, seems rather arrogant for man to decide man is the ultimate being within 400 light years (hawking).Edited by Blue, : AddEdited by Blue, : Add

I don't have time to pick through your list of rubbish, but I will argue a few of them. I will take time later to argue the other points if I must. Please post your sources for "child abuse, human sacrifice, genocide, murder, rape, pillage" if you wish to argue them.I do draw morality from within the bible but this does not mean I don't have a sense of current cultural morality. Honestly a huge list, if not all, of moral things I disagree with or agree with are congruent from within biblical terms. One could argue that I learned those moral rules because of culture, or one could argue that I just feel this way. In both cases neither is proof that we don't draw moral codes without God. We can't prove, if we have some instinctual moral code that it is not from God. Why evil occurs (from an atheist vantage) is not proven. This is actually a huge topic but I will leave that for you to think about.As for slavery in the bible, slaves under hebrew/jewish law were treated very well. In fact most of them were treated better than those slaves here in the USA to the 17 trillion dollar debt/the elite/corp. IF you think Americans are free you are insane. We are privileged. And it is only a matter of time before those great privileges are reduced. I always love it when they use LAW to give freedom. LOL. Not in my life. Prayer has been extremely helpful. I don't ask for to much, most of the time it is thank you. I will say I am blessed on so many levels. It is very strange how well life has gone. How about you prove you are mumbling a few words to your self. Oh wait, you cant prove it. Even on a scientific level you could form a theory. I would love to see a theory that shows prayer is useless. My evidence has been given to me, all through my life. Seems like Phat agrees. Perhaps the other 33%/or 2.3 billion of 7 billion people on planet earth are crazy to believe in the power of prayer to Christ. I don't need to provide it to you. IF you want to see how prayer can help you, you need to pray with all your heart showing that God and Christ do exist. IF you pray without thinking those things, it is pointless. Perhaps that is your problem. If you don't know how to pray look below. Let me remind you, those faithful people permeate all parts of society from the average person to those working in physics, running companies, etc. Matt 6:9-13
6 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

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10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

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11 Give us this day our daily bread.

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12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

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13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.Like that of Alexander The Great? We have no more proof of Alexander The Great than we do for Moses. Even if there was more evidence, it is still just an argument.You do know that lack of evidence does not compute to does not exist. Perhaps you didn't realize that evidence is not proof? Take for example the fossil record. Maybe God created life via evolution? My point, evidence does not speak, it is interpreted based on other evidence that is known. Then over time, those interpretations change. I always love it when they realize we don't know where the universe came from. We are lost. I also love it when they claim they know where the universe came from. You do know that inflation is a joke, just like the bb. There is absolutely no evidence for inflation. If you need help finding the information for my claims just ask. Look up the electric universe/thunderbolts.info. Refer to their interpretations of the cosmic microwave background radiation and further their interpretations of redshift or the doppler effect.Edited by Blue, : errEdited by Blue, : errEdited by Blue, : err

Ok. I can see your nutz. Done talking to you.

You learn to trust God via prayer/revelation.

The verse you speak of is explaining that all people are judged by the law regardless of their belief. If man is gentile, or believer and does or doesn't follow the law he or she is judged by the law. Weather or not the law is in their hearts is just a point that even gentiles will follow the law not knowing it persay. If we take that further it does not quantify to God granting man to disobey God's law without judgement, even if society is writing a law. So as long as that is understood, man WILL and CAN decide.

Instinct. It's a deep deep feeling I get when revelation is received. Billions can corroborate my claims. If you are trying to argue knowledge is supreme, there is no knowledge in God. What we have is belief, not different than atheism.Edited by Blue, : AddEdited by Blue, : AddEdited by Blue, : Err

Did you know that Genesis 1 is confirmed by Science? Written thousands of years before Scientific confirmation. {Not even close to on-topic. - Adminnemooseus}Edited by Blue, : ErrEdited by Blue, : ErrEdited by Adminnemooseus, : Off-topic banner and comment.

IT actually feeds the mouth of your question. Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Off-topic banner.

I know because of revelation.You know how gravity works right? This does not mean you know the theory, it just means you understand how gravity works. This is the same for revelations. They are much different than coincidences. They are answers to questions, or at least the revelations I receive are answers to questions. I have received perfect answers to questions. I was about to explain one of them to you but apparently that is off topic.

I appreciate the welcome. I was not giving up. I was choosing not to have a discussion. I don't care enough to have that conversation for it to be considered giving up.