Blue writes,
quote:
I don't have time to pick through your list of rubbish, but I will argue a few of them.
Wow, I feel honored. This should be interesting, insofar as the rubbish you're willing to argue.
quote:
I will take time later to argue the other points if I must.
What you decide to argue is entirely up to you, so you needn't argue anything, especially if you feel you're unable.
quote:
Please post your sources for "child abuse, human sacrifice, genocide, murder, rape, pillage" if you wish to argue them.
My sources..? My single source is the Bible. Do you mean you want to know where in the Bible it explicitly or implicitly approves of slavery, child abuse, human sacrifice, genocide, rape, murder and pillage..? Are you kidding..? Okay, here are just a few of the many instances where the Bible (the inerrant word of your God) supports the above:
Slavery - EX 21:20-12; LE 25:44-46, DT 15:17, EP 6:5, CN 3:22, TS 2:9, 1PE 2:18; EX 21:7-11.
Child Abuse - GE 17:14; EX 21:17, LE 20:9, DT 21:18-21; PR 13:24, 22:15, 23:13.
Human Sacrifice - LE 27:29; NU 31:31-40 (32 virgins are set aside for Jehova, to be burnt offerings).
Genocide - 1SA 15:7-8, 20; EX 32:27; NU 21:3; NU 21:35; NU 31:17-18; DT 2:33-34; DT 3:6; DT 7:2; JS 6:21-27; JS 10:28;
Rape - NU 31:18, 35, JG 21:12; NU 31:9; NU 31:31-40; DT 21:10-13.
Murder - GE 4:13-15; EX 32:27, DT 7:2, 13:15, 20:1-18
Pillage - EX 3:20-22, DT 20:13-17; JS 6:21-27; JS 10:28.
How's that..?
quote:
I do draw morality from within the bible but this does not mean I don't have a sense of current cultural morality.
So, when they are in conflict, do you obey the morality of your deity, or the morality of your culture..? You know, like where it says you should kill people for working on the Sabbath.
quote:
Honestly a huge list, if not all, of moral things I disagree with or agree with are congruent from within biblical terms.
Like killing homosexuals..? And killing people who plant different crops side by side, and wear two different kinds of cloth..? What about cutting the hands off of women..? Are these the morals you find superior..?
quote:
One could argue that I learned those moral rules because of culture, or one could argue that I just feel this way.
The morals of yours that I'm interested in are the ones that come from the Bible, and that are not part of our culture, like burning women with fire because the live a lifestyle you don't approve of, like a sex worker.
quote:
We can't prove, if we have some instinctual moral code that it is not from God.
Just as we can't prove any negative, like that our morals come from pixies, or elves. You are asserting your morals come from God, and that places the burden of proof squarely on you. Either you find the morality espoused by your God as correct or incorrect. Which is it..?
quote:
Why evil occurs (from an atheist vantage) is not proven.
And it's not necessary to "prove" any such thing. All that needs to be shown, to villify your God, is that evil exists, and that He permits or condones that existence.
quote:
This is actually a huge topic but I will leave that for you to think about.
The existence of evil contradicts a loving God who is omnipotent. The Euthyphro dilemna is one of Plato's early dialogues, and shows clearly that the existence of God and evil are incompatible.
quote:
As for slavery in the bible, slaves under hebrew/jewish law were treated very well.
Oh sure they were....ROFL. Does that include where it says in the Bible you can beat a slave as long as he doesn't die in a day or two..? How they were treated is not the issue. The only issue is whether it is moral to own another human being as property. The Bible and your God assert that it is moral, but in the modern world it is not moral. Which do you agree with..?
quote:
In fact most of them were treated better than those slaves here in the USA to the 17 trillion dollar debt/the elite/corp. IF you think Americans are free you are insane. We are privileged. And it is only a matter of time before those great privileges are reduced. I always love it when they use LAW to give freedom. LOL.
OMG, are you a Teabagger..? This comment has nothing to do with the thread, or anything I posted, so I'll just assume you wrote it while you were off your meds.
quote:
Not in my life. Prayer has been extremely helpful. I don't ask for to much, most of the time it is thank you. I will say I am blessed on so many levels. It is very strange how well life has gone.
Apparently, you missed the point. If your God is omniscient then He already knows everything, including your desires and needs. In fact He would've taken those things into account before making His plans, and if He is perfect then His plan must be perfect as well. Consequently, anything you might ask for would be unnecessary and would be a request for Him to change or alter His plans, which being perfect He couldn't or wouldn't do. Prayer to an omniscient God is a waste of time, since He already knows everything.
quote:
How about you prove you are mumbling a few words to your self. Oh wait, you cant prove it.
As a former Christian, who was baptized and attended church for years I can certainly state without fear of contradiction that I prayed much the same as you do. I can't prove I did any more than you can prove you do, but since this is an unremarkable claim I take you at your word when you say you pray. Too bad you don't take me at my word.
quote:
Oh wait, you cant prove it. Even on a scientific level you could form a theory. I would love to see a theory that shows prayer is useless.
Intercessory prayer has been shown to be worthless in a variety of studies, but that's insufficient proof for you, isn't it..?
quote:
My evidence has been given to me, all through my life.
And that evidence may be convincing for you, but it should never be convincing for anyone else. My question is, how do you know that the evidence you received all through your life is evidence, if you accept it on faith..?
quote:
Perhaps the other 33%/or 2.3 billion of 7 billion people on planet earth are crazy to believe in the power of prayer to Christ.
Perhaps they are, or maybe it's just wishful thinking. In any case the number of people who believe a thing to be true in no way makes it true. When the majority of people believed the earth was flat, did that make it flat..? And when they changed their beliefs and began to believe it was round, did the earth change and become round..?
quote:
I don't need to provide it to you.
He who asserts must prove, so yes you do. However, your failure to provide evidence for the efficacy of prayer simply shows you have no such evidence.
quote:
IF you want to see how prayer can help you, you need to pray with all your heart showing that God and Christ do exist. IF you pray without thinking those things, it is pointless. Perhaps that is your problem. If you don't know how to pray look below. Let me remind you, those faithful people permeate all parts of society from the average person to those working in physics, running companies, etc.
I was a Christian for many years, and prayed exactly in the same manner as you, whether you belive it or not (here comes the no true Scotsman fallacy). The one thing that those who were Christians, and later became atheists can attest to is the fact that prayer is useless, except that it might make you feel better. However, that says nothing about its efficacy, does it..?
quote:
Like that of Alexander The Great? We have no more proof of Alexander The Great than we do for Moses. Even if there was more evidence, it is still just an argument.
Not true at all, but even if you were right, it wouldn't matter. How does your claimed lack of evidence for Alexander the Great impact my life, or anyone else's life..? How would a lack of evidence effect the lives of Christians..? See the difference..?
Here is a lengthy response to your assertion about Alexander the Great...
Debunking Christianity: Alexander the Great, Jesus, and David Marshall: A Simpleton's Approach to History
It's entitled "Alexander the Great, Jesus, and David Marshall: A Simpleton's Approach to History, By Dr. Hector Avalos"
quote:
You do know that lack of evidence does not compute to does not exist. Perhaps you didn't realize that evidence is not proof?
Yes, that's right a lack of evidence is not equivalent to non-existence. So Bigfoot, fairies, elves, and Leprechauns are all as believable to you as Moses..? Lack of evidence requires a degree of skepticism, and the default is non-belief until sufficient convincing evidence is provided. You only get proof in mathematics, and alcohol. In history we get a degree of certainty. Read the article I provided, it explains it in detail.
quote:
Take for example the fossil record. Maybe God created life via evolution? My point, evidence does not speak, it is interpreted based on other evidence that is known. Then over time, those interpretations change.
Yes, that's called the scientific method. Interpretations change because new evidence and theories explaining the evidence are advanced. It doesn't happen by whim, or because of revelation.
quote:
I always love it when they realize we don't know where the universe came from. We are lost. I also love it when they claim they know where the universe came from. You do know that inflation is a joke, just like the bb. There is absolutely no evidence for inflation.
And you have evidence that denies or contradicts the evidence found and corroborated by scientists all over the world that specifically supports the big bang..? Could you provide that evidence..? An opinion, especially from someone who has no knowledge, or training in the field of cosmology, is less than convincing.
quote:
If you need help finding the information for my claims just ask. Look up the electric universe/thunderbolts.info. Refer to their interpretations of the cosmic microwave background radiation and further their interpretations of redshift or the doppler effect.
You're making the assertion, so it's not up to me to look up the evidence that you assert exists. If you had any evidence for your wild conjecture it would have been published and you (or the people making this claim that are putting forward) would have a Nobel Prize in physics. Do you have a Nobel Prize..? No..? Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson share a Nobel Prize for discovering the cosmic microwave background radiation left over from the Big Bang.
™ Version 4.2
(1)