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Author | Topic: What if Jesus and Satan were real? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Blue writes:
Why would anybody choose to die?
You choose to die or live. Everything is a choice.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Blue writes:
Your argument is accepted in parts of the Christian and Jewish communities. It's far from universal.
I've stated my argument, and it is pretty well accepted in Jewish and Christian communities. Blue writes:
We are continuing this conversation because Bible literalists have a lot of misconceptions about the Bible - conflating snakes with Satan, conflating Satan with evil, etc. - and they often assume that their interpretation is the only one. It's to your benefit to know what the alternatives are.
I am not sure why we are continuing this conversation we are just going into circles.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Blue writes:
That's a cop-out. We generally recognize that people who "choose" to commit suicide are not thinking rationally. They are reacting to circumstances that are often temprary. (Permanent solution to temporary problem = not rational.) ringo writes:
Ask the person choosing to commit suicide. Why would anybody choose to die? The question is: Why would anybody rationally, in the long term, choose death over life?
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Blue writes:
Are you aware that you're not the only person reading this forum? I have not been made aware of anything new in this forum. I am not arguing certain points because I am not aware of the other points. I'm not trying to convince you that you're wrong. I'm trying to convince anybody else reading the forum that you're wrong.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Blue writes:
You would get a job, home, food, freedom after 6 years if you desired.quote:"Free" to abandon your wife and children.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Blue writes:
Nonsense. Risking your life for a living is not "suicidal". Military and police forces have suicidal jobs and they know it. (By the way, jobs like farming, logging, fishing, mining and construction are often more dangerous than policing or soldiering.) Choosing to do something risky is not the same as "choosing" eternal torment.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Blue writes:
I did look it up - and I quoted this:
After 6 years all debts are wiped. Look it up.quote:After six years they were set free without their wives and children. The slave owner kept the wives and children. That's a rather obvious ploy to make the slave "choose" to remain a slave.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Blue writes:
No. Knowing you could die is not the same as actively trying to kill yourself.
Risking your life in honor is suicidal. You know you could die each time you risk it.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Blue writes:
Chapter and verse please.
If the wife was purchased a year before the male hebrew slave in that scenario, she would be free first after 6 years then the male next, then the children according to the 6 year law. Blue writes:
Of course that only applies to Hebrew slaves:
The master only owns slaves maximum of 6 years unless the slave chooses to remain a slave.quote:Foreigners "shall be your bondmen for ever".
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Blue writes:
By all means, show us examples of Marines and firefighters who consider themselves suicidal.
You should argue that with a us marine fighting in the middle east. You should also ask a fire fighter choosing to attempt to save a person in a locked room when the building is about to blow up.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Blue writes:
I'm not being anti-Biblical; I'm showing you what the Bible says. Jumping through hoops to try to make sense of it is the wrong way to approach any text. You don't decide it's true and then twist it to fit reality. You read what it says and then decide if it's true.
Try to figure out a way for it to make sense instead of just being anti biblical.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Blue writes:
You said, "Try to figure out a way for it to make sense...." You seem to be willing to twist what the text actually says to make it "make sense". You don't seem willing to accept the possibility that maybe it just doesn't make sense.
I didn't say I was twisting the text that is your words.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Blue writes:
"Understanding the Bible" doesn't just mean memorizing a lot of apologetics in an attempt to make it "make sense". The first thing you need to understand is that it's a book written by men and copied by men and redacted by men and translated by men, so there's room for human error. And since it's literature it's more likely to be literate than literal.
The context of that message was for you because you clearly don't understand the bible.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Blue writes:
So you're saying that by Biblical moral standards, slavery is preferable to genocide.
In leviticus 25 44-46 it is referring to heathen (pagans). In those days pagans were killed by jews because they are considered evil.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Blue writes:
Which brings me back to my previous point: How do you know God isn't the wicked one? Destroying the earth with a flood sounds pretty wicked to me. Sending billions to everlasting torment sounds wicked to me. Who could possibly be more wicked than God? God is judging the wicked because God permitted their life. If Jesus and Satan were real, how would you know which is which?
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