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Author Topic:   What if Jesus and Satan were real?
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 382 of 591 (727117)
05-15-2014 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 376 by Blue
05-15-2014 1:28 PM


Re: Satan
Blue writes:
You choose to die or live. Everything is a choice.
Why would anybody choose to die?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 376 by Blue, posted 05-15-2014 1:28 PM Blue has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 385 by Blue, posted 05-15-2014 2:19 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 383 of 591 (727118)
05-15-2014 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 377 by Blue
05-15-2014 1:32 PM


Re: Satan
Blue writes:
I've stated my argument, and it is pretty well accepted in Jewish and Christian communities.
Your argument is accepted in parts of the Christian and Jewish communities. It's far from universal.
Blue writes:
I am not sure why we are continuing this conversation we are just going into circles.
We are continuing this conversation because Bible literalists have a lot of misconceptions about the Bible - conflating snakes with Satan, conflating Satan with evil, etc. - and they often assume that their interpretation is the only one. It's to your benefit to know what the alternatives are.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 377 by Blue, posted 05-15-2014 1:32 PM Blue has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 386 by Blue, posted 05-15-2014 2:21 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 387 of 591 (727123)
05-15-2014 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 385 by Blue
05-15-2014 2:19 PM


Re: Satan
Blue writes:
ringo writes:
Why would anybody choose to die?
Ask the person choosing to commit suicide.
That's a cop-out. We generally recognize that people who "choose" to commit suicide are not thinking rationally. They are reacting to circumstances that are often temprary. (Permanent solution to temporary problem = not rational.)
The question is: Why would anybody rationally, in the long term, choose death over life?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 385 by Blue, posted 05-15-2014 2:19 PM Blue has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 416 by Blue, posted 05-16-2014 11:31 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 389 of 591 (727125)
05-15-2014 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 386 by Blue
05-15-2014 2:21 PM


Re: Satan
Blue writes:
I have not been made aware of anything new in this forum. I am not arguing certain points because I am not aware of the other points.
Are you aware that you're not the only person reading this forum?
I'm not trying to convince you that you're wrong. I'm trying to convince anybody else reading the forum that you're wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 386 by Blue, posted 05-15-2014 2:21 PM Blue has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 444 by Blue, posted 05-17-2014 11:38 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 417 of 591 (727209)
05-16-2014 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 415 by Blue
05-16-2014 11:29 AM


Re: Satan
Blue writes:
You would get a job, home, food, freedom after 6 years if you desired.
quote:
Exodus 21:4 If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.
"Free" to abandon your wife and children.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 415 by Blue, posted 05-16-2014 11:29 AM Blue has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 420 by Blue, posted 05-16-2014 12:26 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 418 of 591 (727210)
05-16-2014 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 416 by Blue
05-16-2014 11:31 AM


Re: Satan
Blue writes:
Military and police forces have suicidal jobs and they know it.
Nonsense. Risking your life for a living is not "suicidal".
(By the way, jobs like farming, logging, fishing, mining and construction are often more dangerous than policing or soldiering.)
Choosing to do something risky is not the same as "choosing" eternal torment.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 416 by Blue, posted 05-16-2014 11:31 AM Blue has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 421 by Blue, posted 05-16-2014 12:28 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 422 of 591 (727221)
05-16-2014 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 420 by Blue
05-16-2014 12:26 PM


Re: Satan
Blue writes:
After 6 years all debts are wiped. Look it up.
I did look it up - and I quoted this:
quote:
Exodus 21:4 If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.
After six years they were set free without their wives and children. The slave owner kept the wives and children. That's a rather obvious ploy to make the slave "choose" to remain a slave.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 420 by Blue, posted 05-16-2014 12:26 PM Blue has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 424 by Blue, posted 05-16-2014 12:46 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 423 of 591 (727222)
05-16-2014 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 421 by Blue
05-16-2014 12:28 PM


Re: Satan
Blue writes:
Risking your life in honor is suicidal. You know you could die each time you risk it.
No. Knowing you could die is not the same as actively trying to kill yourself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 421 by Blue, posted 05-16-2014 12:28 PM Blue has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 425 by Blue, posted 05-16-2014 12:47 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 426 of 591 (727230)
05-16-2014 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 424 by Blue
05-16-2014 12:46 PM


Re: Satan
Blue writes:
If the wife was purchased a year before the male hebrew slave in that scenario, she would be free first after 6 years then the male next, then the children according to the 6 year law.
Chapter and verse please.
Blue writes:
The master only owns slaves maximum of 6 years unless the slave chooses to remain a slave.
Of course that only applies to Hebrew slaves:
quote:
Leviticus 25:44-46 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.
Foreigners "shall be your bondmen for ever".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 424 by Blue, posted 05-16-2014 12:46 PM Blue has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 428 by Blue, posted 05-16-2014 1:11 PM ringo has replied
 Message 432 by Blue, posted 05-16-2014 1:39 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 427 of 591 (727231)
05-16-2014 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 425 by Blue
05-16-2014 12:47 PM


Re: Satan
Blue writes:
You should argue that with a us marine fighting in the middle east. You should also ask a fire fighter choosing to attempt to save a person in a locked room when the building is about to blow up.
By all means, show us examples of Marines and firefighters who consider themselves suicidal.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 425 by Blue, posted 05-16-2014 12:47 PM Blue has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 433 by Blue, posted 05-16-2014 11:21 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 429 of 591 (727234)
05-16-2014 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 428 by Blue
05-16-2014 1:11 PM


Re: Satan
Blue writes:
Try to figure out a way for it to make sense instead of just being anti biblical.
I'm not being anti-Biblical; I'm showing you what the Bible says. Jumping through hoops to try to make sense of it is the wrong way to approach any text. You don't decide it's true and then twist it to fit reality. You read what it says and then decide if it's true.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 428 by Blue, posted 05-16-2014 1:11 PM Blue has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 430 by Blue, posted 05-16-2014 1:20 PM ringo has replied
 Message 431 by Blue, posted 05-16-2014 1:22 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 443 of 591 (727304)
05-17-2014 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 430 by Blue
05-16-2014 1:20 PM


Re: Satan
Blue writes:
I didn't say I was twisting the text that is your words.
You said, "Try to figure out a way for it to make sense...." You seem to be willing to twist what the text actually says to make it "make sense". You don't seem willing to accept the possibility that maybe it just doesn't make sense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 430 by Blue, posted 05-16-2014 1:20 PM Blue has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 445 by Blue, posted 05-17-2014 11:44 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 446 of 591 (727308)
05-17-2014 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 431 by Blue
05-16-2014 1:22 PM


Re: Satan
Blue writes:
The context of that message was for you because you clearly don't understand the bible.
"Understanding the Bible" doesn't just mean memorizing a lot of apologetics in an attempt to make it "make sense". The first thing you need to understand is that it's a book written by men and copied by men and redacted by men and translated by men, so there's room for human error. And since it's literature it's more likely to be literate than literal.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 431 by Blue, posted 05-16-2014 1:22 PM Blue has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 448 by Blue, posted 05-17-2014 11:49 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 447 of 591 (727310)
05-17-2014 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 432 by Blue
05-16-2014 1:39 PM


Re: Satan
Blue writes:
In leviticus 25 44-46 it is referring to heathen (pagans). In those days pagans were killed by jews because they are considered evil.
So you're saying that by Biblical moral standards, slavery is preferable to genocide.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 432 by Blue, posted 05-16-2014 1:39 PM Blue has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 449 by Blue, posted 05-17-2014 11:52 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 450 by Blue, posted 05-17-2014 11:54 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 451 of 591 (727315)
05-17-2014 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 434 by Blue
05-16-2014 11:24 PM


Re: Satan
Blue writes:
God is judging the wicked because God permitted their life.
Which brings me back to my previous point: How do you know God isn't the wicked one? Destroying the earth with a flood sounds pretty wicked to me. Sending billions to everlasting torment sounds wicked to me. Who could possibly be more wicked than God?
If Jesus and Satan were real, how would you know which is which?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 434 by Blue, posted 05-16-2014 11:24 PM Blue has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 453 by Blue, posted 05-17-2014 12:04 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
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