Summations Only

Eve recited God's words to the snake, so we know she knew. I agree with ringo. You don't seem to have a point.

It's a strange way to run a universe.

If you view the serpent as satan it would make sense he fell in the moment we fell. I view the story as past tense so where it called the serpent SUBTIL it is telling it after it would of occurred. Saying the serpent was subtil was based on the story. It wasn't to say the serpent had been subtil prior to the story. So the fall was the fall into evil bringing it into reality.Fyi: evil is not random.Edited by Blue, : Edit

I think it is reasonable to conclude adam spoke with eve. But it is not in the text that adam said that to eve. Ringo's perspective is that you can't draw inferences from vs 4. I disagree. A billion people also disagree including a huge community of the Jewish people, especially converted Jews. This is not something new. Also if you read vs 1 it is clear the story is about a DECEPTIVE serpent that is JUDGED separately for its sins. Look at the usage of SUBTIL in vs 1 to understand how it was a separate being being deceptiveEdited by Blue, : ErEdited by Blue, : Add

God's not running it. Hence free agency. It also appears you are not thinking about eternity. Further what humans think and what God thinks are not the same. God's ways are above your ways.

Yes God is running it. He makes both good and bad things happen.Isaiah 45:6-7 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.Pretty clear, to me. God makes the good and bad things happen. Maybe he could stop creating evil?Wouldn't that be nice?

Maybe we could stop choosing it.....I believe that God compels us to do good but that He does not compel us to do evil. We choose that on our own....

I don't read that to mean he is running around controlling all events. I interpret it to mean God is involved in events fitting his plan. The scope of the verse should be understood within the scope of the bible which does include free agency.Edited by Blue, : Err

Hi Phat, what you believe seems to be contradicted by the verse I quoted.God very clearly says he is behind evil. If Yahweh compels us to do good that contradicts free will. If he is happy to compel people to do good why does he not compel people not to do evil?

No God is behind calamity which meant punishment. Read the entire chapter it's talking about punishment. You are contradicting your own understanding of the Bible. So you need to reinterpret it.I know in gravitational science you can just add dark energy but in scripture you need to reinterpret issues until it is clear/not contradictory.Edited by Blue, : EditEdited by Blue, : AddEdited by Blue, : Add

You are wrong.The verse says what it says. You appear to be reinterpreting the verse so as to suit your vision of your god's character.But the bible is very clear and the context is clear: he is in charge of both good and evil and as such is the cause of both good and evil in the universe.He admits it in the bible.Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.How this be read in any other context than that given?

No you are wrong. Stop hating on the Bible. Think with a open mind not with your preconceptions. Look at the Hebrew lexicon definition. It is talking about calamity especially if you read the entire chapter. You are interpreting it to your own personal agenda and desires.

It can be so difficult to tell them apart sometimes. Was Nebuchadnezzar choosing evil when he sent the jews into exile, or was he delivering God's 'justice' unto them?

Depends on the vantage. Of course if you were God it would be clear.

There is also the point that he was choosing evil AND delivering justice. We see this with satan in job 1. Satan is doing God's bidding. If the Jews fell away and God let it happen it would fit perfectly.Edited by Blue, : Add