Register | Sign In

Understanding through Discussion

EvC Forum active members: 57 (9175 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: sirs
Post Volume: Total: 917,646 Year: 4,903/9,624 Month: 251/427 Week: 61/103 Day: 5/14 Hour: 0/1

Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Author Topic:   What if Jesus and Satan were real?
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005

Message 586 of 591 (727672)
05-19-2014 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 580 by Blue
05-19-2014 4:04 PM

Re: Satan
Rape and murder are a property of free will
Apart from when god orders rape and murder. There he is using rape and murder to take away the rights of people not to be raped and murdered.
If God managed us/controlled us he couldn't judge us.
If god had not made us with the capaciry to do evil he would not need to judge us. Why not take away our ability to decide to go to hell by being evil? He could have done it: he can do anything.
You are a hypocrite.
I know this is not aimed at me but I do have to take exception. I've 'known' Modulous on this site for nearly ten years and hypocracy is not one of his character traits. Would you care to specify his hypocracy?
All the best.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 580 by Blue, posted 05-19-2014 4:04 PM Blue has not replied

Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3

Message 587 of 591 (727673)
05-19-2014 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 584 by Blue
05-19-2014 4:27 PM

Re: God's cure-all : Rampant slaughter
You are a hypocrite.
I don't think that word means what you think it means.
Mod may be many things but I don't think he is a hypocrite. What did he say or do for you to come this conclusion? Because it certainly seems there is nothing hypocritical he has said in the discussions with you.
Oh yeah
You are a troll.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 584 by Blue, posted 05-19-2014 4:27 PM Blue has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 588 by Modulous, posted 05-19-2014 6:19 PM Theodoric has not replied

Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005

Message 588 of 591 (727676)
05-19-2014 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 587 by Theodoric
05-19-2014 5:49 PM

Re: God's cure-all : Rampant slaughter
Mod may be many things but I don't think he is a hypocrite.
I'm pretty sure I'm a hypocrite. I have a pulse after all I think to label me a hypocrite might be stretching the word too thin, of course. I may have broke him/her with Message 574
Oh yeah
You are a troll.
On the other hand, I don't think we should confuse the noble art of trolling with someone losing an argument and losing their thin veneer of civility.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 587 by Theodoric, posted 05-19-2014 5:49 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 589 by Dogmafood, posted 05-19-2014 9:08 PM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010

Message 589 of 591 (727677)
05-19-2014 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 588 by Modulous
05-19-2014 6:19 PM

Re: God's cure-all : Rampant slaughter
I may have broke him/her with Message 574
Well you are certainly more open minded than I am.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 588 by Modulous, posted 05-19-2014 6:19 PM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

Posts: 3977
Joined: 09-26-2002

Message 590 of 591 (727678)
05-19-2014 9:32 PM

Putting topic into summation mode
Seems time to wrap this one up.

Or something like that.

Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005

Message 591 of 591 (727774)
05-20-2014 2:40 PM

Jesus vs Satan


'And God so loved the world...'
Evil existed before humans. So humans did not create evil. Before humans, Satan was not evil. Therefore evil either has always existed or it was created. There is only one creative spirit. Jesus.
But the abstraction of evil is not real evil. For real evil to come into the world, there needs to be evildoers. For evildoers, there needs to be free agency. God created free agency. God created evildoers. God created real evil.
But there needs to be more than free agency. There also needs to be the desire to commit evil. It is one thing to be free to commit evil, but if humans lacked the desire, there would be no real evil. For real evil there must be desire. God created desire to commit evil. God created the knowledge of how to commit evil. God created disobedient and curious humans who would acquire that knowledge and their desire to enact it.
God, and therefore Jesus, created evil. The Bible provides me with all the evidence I need.


Satan did what God told him to, and was absolutely essential to realize God's goals. Satan cannot create evil. Even in the New Testament, whose authors slander Satan at all opportunities by 'creating'* a new character, the devil, and insinuating they are one and the same. Even if we assume he is the temptor - he is working with tools God created - human desire, human's poor reasoning skills etc.

To answer Message 1
The fact of Jesus and Satan is not a fact. It is a Belief. Now...what if this belief were false?
1) People known as Christians would be made out to look as ignorant and stupid as possible. Much of it would be their own fault, for they would try and live as believers and as worldly people at the same time.
2) Other religions would be involved in conflict just like Christianity.
3) People who practiced and studied occult and ancient mystery religions would be quite intellectual and bemused by all of the hoopla over supernatural reality. They would consider it all an exercise in intellectual mystic states of achievement.
4) Many would call themselves Christians who were not.
5) The Bible would be ridiculed and scorned for its fantasy, yet concepts such as alternative universes and the Tao of Physics would be reverently considered.
6) People with Williams Syndrome would love all of us...buffoon and bartender, professor and psychotic (incidentally, what's wrong with psychotics, are the unloveable? 1 in 20 people will suffer an episode of psychosis, 1 in a 100 will be plagued by it and are typically called schizophrenic. Two of my closest friends suffer(ed) with psychosis. One of them was killed by it.)
7) Satan would not let us know about him.
8) Anytime that the topic was brought up, people would attempt to either refute the basic message or distract attention from it.
* by creating I mean by stealing from pagans.

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:

Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024