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Author Topic:   Sodom and Lot, historicity and plausibility of Genesis 19
berberry
Inactive Member


Message 137 of 213 (192433)
03-19-2005 3:05 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by contracycle
03-18-2005 5:50 AM


contracycle writes Arachnophilia:
quote:
Thats nonsense - I have already told you that I have done my own search for hospitality myths and so forth, and all I found was people making this argument. Thats what makes me think it is an urban myth. And I am confident of my position because I have already used many myth archives on the net, and there should have been hits.
Surely you haven't forgotten the story of Philemon and Baucis?
EDIT: In checking further backward I see that the story has already been mentioned in this thread, so I apologize for jumping in. Still, the link might be useful since it has the story as I remember it from college.
This message has been edited by berberry, 03-19-2005 02:26 AM

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by contracycle, posted 03-18-2005 5:50 AM contracycle has not replied

Replies to this message:
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berberry
Inactive Member


Message 144 of 213 (192502)
03-19-2005 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by wmscott
03-19-2005 12:42 PM


Meet Mr. Stupid
wmscott blathers:
quote:
quote:
If being gay is a choice, then why are gay people so adamant that it isn't a choice?
They don't want to take responsibility for their actions.
Do you work at being this stupid or were you born that way? I'm gay and I can tell you that I didn't make any goddamned choice. You right-wing christian idiots can only justify your bigotry by making it seem that gays have made a choice when the fact is that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
You wanna show some evidence for this stupid claim, or will you just admit that you're stupid? I doubt you'll do either, but then what more can one expect from a dolt like you?

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by wmscott, posted 03-19-2005 12:42 PM wmscott has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 154 by wmscott, posted 03-20-2005 8:40 AM berberry has replied

berberry
Inactive Member


Message 159 of 213 (192801)
03-20-2005 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by wmscott
03-20-2005 8:40 AM


Re: Meet Mr. Stupid
wmscott writes me:
quote:
Actualy I am not a "right-wing christian"
You're no better and certainly no more intelligent than the typical right-wing christian.
quote:
Yes homosexuality is a matter of choice and people can and have changed their orination.
That cannot be proved. The paper you linked is no good; all it says is that some people experienced "at least some minimal change" in orientation. It's no surprise that you can scare people into acting straight. You still can't change their orientation.
Besides, all of the nonsense about changing orientation is based on the premise that a person would want to change their orientation. I don't want to change mine, because you see unlike you I don't give a flying fuck what the goddamn bible says. Why on earth should I care about a collection of pre-historic fairy stories like the bible?
What in hell does "gender noncoformity" have to do with anything? Here's a quote from the bullshit you linked:
Several childhood factors are reported to be associated with a homosexual orientation in men, including gender nonconformity and rejection by parents and peers.
Guess what? I don't act like a girl and my mother and father both love me (although I'll admit to problems with my father beginning when I was in my mid-20s due to his association with right-wing christians. Those problems have gotten much worse recently since dolts like him now have near-absolute political power). You've never known a sissy straight man? You need to get out of your goddamn church once in a while. There's life going on out here.
You quote:
International epidemiological studies demonstrate that gay and bisexual males are four times more likely to report a serious suicide attempt than their heterosexual counterparts.
Given the fact that homosexuals are marginalized and demonized by mentally-challenged right-wingers who refuse to recognize the civil rights and human dignity of anyone they don't approve of it should be no surprise that gays are somewhat more likely to attempt suicide.
You know, there are still a number of diseases and mental problems that African-Americans are more prone to than whites. Even their life-expectancy is shorter. Should they be trying to change themselves into white people?
As for:
CONCLUSION: The development of an homosexual identity is a process connected with serious health hazards related to both physical and mental health.
why did you leave out the last part?
Most adolescents are not given adequate support because heterosexuality is considered the norm in most cultures.
Exactly. They aren't supported by their right-wing lunatic parents and society, so how can it be surprising that they suffer mentally? As for physically, well of course there are some right-wingers who actually go so far as to physically attack anyone who dares to live in a way they don't approve of. Hence, gays are prone to physical hazards that don't affect straights.
You really aren't able to read and comprehend more than a sentence at a time, are you?

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by wmscott, posted 03-20-2005 8:40 AM wmscott has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 171 by wmscott, posted 03-21-2005 4:34 PM berberry has replied

berberry
Inactive Member


Message 179 of 213 (193205)
03-22-2005 1:02 AM
Reply to: Message 171 by wmscott
03-21-2005 4:34 PM


Why don't YOU change?
wmscott writes me:
quote:
The majority of participants gave reports of change from a predominantly or exclusively homosexual orientation before therapy to a predominantly or exclusively heterosexual orientation in the past year.
Of course people can change for short periods of time. I don't believe a year is anywhere near long enough to determine if a lifelong change has taken place.
There are certainly gay people who worry that they're going to hell because people who believe in silly fairy stories like you manage to convince them to believe in those same silly fairy stories. It should be no surprise that there are plenty of dumb gay people just like there are plenty of dumb straight people.
Usually it's a non-thinking member of the family who manages to convince these vulnerable gays to go for "help", sometimes under threat of being disowned. But the change is never permanent.
quote:
My point wasn't that change is easy or universal, just that it is possible.
Possible, yes. Particularly if the person is actually bisexual, not homosexual. Bisexuals, just like anyone else, have the capacity to settle down with one person, which could just as well be a member of the opposite sex as it could a member of the same sex.
But there's absolutely no need to change, other than to satisfy the egos of believers of silly fairy stories.
quote:
I couldn't have but better words into your mouth to prove my point if I tried.
You made the stupid statement that gays don't take responsibility for their actions. My words prove your point? How so?
quote:
Everyone should learn to treat others with dignity, but is unlikely to happen since you can't even seem to be able do it yourself.
How is a statement like "gays don't take responsibility for their actions" treating others with dignity? You are incapable of treating anyone you don't approve of with dignity. Your bigoted attitudes won't allow it. So why don't you try to change?

Keep America Safe AND Free!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by wmscott, posted 03-21-2005 4:34 PM wmscott has not replied

berberry
Inactive Member


Message 205 of 213 (193533)
03-22-2005 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by wmscott
03-22-2005 5:49 PM


Re: A parting shot
wmscott writes:
quote:
To all concerned, I am making a last post on this thread, demands on my time will keep me too busy to post again until after April 15th.
We can take it up then if you like.
quote:
I would like to restate that homosexuality is a choice, as shown by scientific studies...
I disagree. Those studies showed nothing of the sort. At most, they showed it is possible to coerce feeble-minded people into rejecting their sexuality for some indeterminate brief period of time.
quote:
...and this scripture from the Bible.
The bible is a collection of ancient fairy stories, it can in no way be used as evidence for anything, except perhaps that ancient people were quite imaginitive.
quote:
Here right in the Bible we have an inspired record that, people who had been homosexuals, had with the help of the holy spirit, had changed and were no longer homosexuals.
You seem to have a desperate need to believe that that's what the bible says, but you've made nothing even close to a convincing case.
You seem to feel that everyone else should believe all of this fairy nonsense simply because you do.
quote:
The reason for why they had to make the change is also clearly stated, if they didn't, they would not inherit the kingdom.
Even if I did buy all of this make-believe silliness, the prospect of inheriting the same kingdom that people like you are going to inherit is hardly enticing.
quote:
To gain God's approval, a person must stop doing what God considers wrong.
Why would anyone care whether your fairy god approves of them? Hell, in the very chapter of genesis that is the basis of this thread we have this fairy god making a hero of a man who tries to pimp out his virgin daughters. Why would anyone want the approval of a perverted deity like that?
quote:
Paul clearly stated that such acts were "contrary to nature" or unnatural and "obscene"
It's also quite clear from other passages that Paul was the sort of man who approved of slavery and disapproved of women's rights. Just the sort of guy your fairy god would love, no doubt, but not the sort of man I'd look to for any kind of guidance. You see, I don't approve of slavery and I do approve of women's rights.
quote:
I see that my pointing out the fact that being gay is a choice...
You keep saying that, but you haven't come anywhere close to proving it. Of course, the fact that you believe in silly fairy stories means that you don't have to prove your assertions at this forum, so I suppose you're free to keep citing this one as fact even though it clearly is not. But you should be warned that doing so probably doesn't help you in your so-far futile quest to present yourself as a reasonable, thoughtful person. I may have gone a bit far in calling you stupid earlier after you made the false, unfair and inflammatory comment that gays don't take responsibility for their actions, a statement which actually displays your own irresponsibility. I apologize for that, but it is still quite obvious that you are not reasonable when you continue to engage in such sophistry.
quote:
So since the evidence has been presented...
What evidence? That study that showed that people could be bullied into temporarily squelching their sexuality? What does that evidence?

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by wmscott, posted 03-22-2005 5:49 PM wmscott has not replied

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