1 Kings 22:22-23 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.
Of course, some people would say that God had every right to lie to Ahab, but it was still a lie.
Why would God create a source (the Bible) that portrays Himself as a liar ?
If the claim is true that the Bible is the word of God then anything written therein that is interpreted to say God is lying would be ridiculous.
If the claim is untrue (Bible not the word of God) then anyone cannot use the claim momentarily to accuse God of lying.
The passage of scripture concerning Ahab is a chilling revelation revealing that IF you persist in rebellion (in Ahab's case idol worship) He can make you believe something that is not true for the purpose of getting you killed.
[This message has been edited by WILLOWTREE, 04-12-2004]
Willowtree, deception is most defintely a form of lying. So, if you piss of the supposed almighty, its ok for him to lie to you and lead you astray, even unto death. Seems like a particularly ugly form of lying to me. Isn't that supposed to be the job of satan? Just curious.
First let me start by saying I named this thread incorrectly. It really has nothing to do with the quesiton of whether or not God can lie; I am merely pointing out a blatant contradiction in the Scriptures.
Second, the point of pointing out contradictions is to show that the Bible is no the Word of God. You are right; God would not write a book which contradicts itself and shows Him to be a liar. Think about it: if He cannot write a book that doesnt contradict itself, how can He make a universe?
Again, sorry about the incorrect name for the thread; this is about contradcitions, not lying. My bad.
If only I could find a contradiction in the bible, or even in the O.P. Usually I find there are no contradictions, just un-Theologicaly assumed contradictions. In a book filled with parables poetic words and truths you might automatically see a contradiction with your unbelief.
[This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 04-12-2004]
xBobTheAlienx quote : ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Think about it: if He cannot write a book that doesnt contradict itself, how can He make a universe? ----------------------------------------------------------------------
IF there be contradictions then I would agree that this is evidence supporting your claim that He did not create the universe. Notice I said "evidence", how much weight to give the evidence is another subject.
When God possesses His word I claim that it is inerrant and without contradiction. When He transfers that word to a chosen vessel for recording it instantly has the potential to become errant/contradictory.
The various versions and translations of Scripture certainly do appear to have contradictions, yet, upon strenuous study these errors can satisfactorily be explained/refuted.
The discovery of the truth as presented in the Bible takes just as much effort and brains as the discovery of truth via science.
Bob : Would you re-explain the alleged contradiction cited in post # 1 - I do not understand.
deception is most defintely a form of lying. So, if you piss of the supposed almighty, its ok for him to lie to you and lead you astray, even unto death. Seems like a particularly ugly form of lying to me. Isn't that supposed to be the job of satan? Just curious.
Ahab always knew what was right he only persisted in doing what was wrong so God made him give himself into his sin and got punished fr it. I dont have a bible here with me but paul said in one of his letters that the truth(jesus) was given by God to the people but the people DID NOT WANT TO BELIEVE THE TRUTH. In return God allowed them to sink even more in their own sins and I bet you know what the punishment is. (Hint:what is the fruit of rebelion?)
700/7000 horsemen is viewed by nearly everyone as a copyist error, not a contradiction.
David's sin penalty of 7 years is also abundantly agreed on to be a copyist error because the rest of the 2 verses are in complete accordance with one another.
The hebrew word used in Exodus 9:6 is meant specifically for livestock and therefore does not include the horses used for the horsemen of the chariots. Therefore, not a contradiction because all the livestock were killed.
The plague referred to in 1 Corin. 10:8 is not the same plague as the one in Numbers 25:9. Paul quotes Exodus 32 just prior to giving the number as 23,000 which is a completely different plague than the one in Numbers 25:9 as punishment for those joined to Baal. Therefore, not a contradiction.
How could a copyist error have been permitted in the Lord's Holy Book?
You must remember, crash, that the Bible is only inerrant and infallible in the original Hebrew and Greek in which it was written. Copy errors and loose translations are around because of the infallibility of man, not because God made a mistake when He inspired the men who wrote it.
You must remember, crash, that the Bible is only inerrant and infallible in the original Hebrew and Greek in which it was written.
This is surely taken on faith and cannot be demonstrated as there is not a single extant original bible text. For all we know the ones we have now may be more harmonious than the originals
Also, the 700 or 7000 is technically a contradiction, it may be a copyist error but the two verses contradict each other. It is quite difficult to miscopy Hebrew numbers given that they have no numeral for 'zero'.
Anyway, no matter how you dress it up and try to validate it, a lie is a lie, regardless of the reason, simple as that.
Even when God Himself admits that he sent a lying spirit, you people still try to twist it to fit your preconceptions, it doesn't really matter what the texts says does it, we can always find an interpretation to cover it up LOL. Amazing.
So can I ask the inerrantist crew here, to answer the following question with a yes or a no:
Did God lie to Ahab?
No 'yes becauses', or 'Yes buts', a yes or no will do.