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Author Topic:   Who is Jesus Christ to you?
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 82 (37304)
04-18-2003 9:59 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by sagg
04-17-2003 10:17 AM


Re: Jesus
Also, when examining this area, let us look at who Jesus says he is. He says He and His father are one: that He is God. Mohammed, Confuscious, Buddha, etc. never claimed to be God - only messengers of God. Jesus defeated death, and is alive today. The founders of other religions died, and remain dead.

I'm not familiar with any written works by Jesus. Perhaps you could point some out? Because all you really have is some writers saying "Jesus said he is god". Somebody telling you what Jesus said is not the same as Jesus saying something. It's putting words in his mouth, in fact. (I think you've railed against that in your posts?)

Anyway, maybe Buddha or Mohammed didn't say they were god, although they may have been great men. The Pharohes did call themselves gods, you know. In both China and Japan the emporers were held to be the direct offspring of God, as well. And the things they did and left behind were cretainly great as well. Do you hold them to be gods as well?

The thing is, calling oneself "god" is not generally regarded as a sane thing to do. Only liars and crazy people call themselves gods, as far as we know.

Again, there's not really any evidence for Jesus's supposed resurrection. I mean, somebody told you he rose again, somebody who wasn't even there to see it, but why do you believe them? Jesus certainly isn't around today (unless he's hiding). If he did anything other than die then evidence is needed before such an event is to be accepted.

Sure, it's an issue of faith. If you simply accept these things on faith, fine. But when you try and rationalize them to the rest of us, a lot of us see a pitiable attempt to lie to oneself.

As it turns out, I can make an intellectual decision on the matter. Since it has never been shown that God intervenes in the world in a capacity that could be recognized to be statistically significant (i.e. different from random chance), I can decide that gods don't exist. Makes perfect sense to me and answers many more questions then it raises, unlike belief in the god of the bible.


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drummachine
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 82 (37485)
04-21-2003 7:51 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Brian
04-17-2003 7:04 AM


Brian,

So what would be one example of a false teaching?


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drummachine
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 82 (38078)
04-25-2003 7:37 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by John
04-16-2003 10:15 AM


Re: Jesus
John,

Jesus Christ is the King of the Jews. All the disciples and writers of the New Testament were Jews except Luke. The New Covenant is a fulfillemt of the Old Covenant. Christ said He came to fulfill the law, not abolish it. The Old Testamet prophecies pointed to everything in the New Testament. Would you pleas explain your statement?


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drummachine
Inactive Member


Message 49 of 82 (38079)
04-25-2003 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Andya Primanda
04-16-2003 12:01 PM


Re: Hey Andya...
It's interesting how The Qur'an was written after the "corrupted" Bible. Muhammud died of poisoning and Christ said no one takes His life but He laid it down for all and then rose from the dead. Muhammud said there were times he thought he was receiving messages from Satan. Allah cannot be known and Yahweh says we can know Him and we need to. Christ said love your enemies but Allah said slay them. Did you look at the infomation I gave you about Islam? I believe the most important thing is this. How is sin atoned for and is Allah a God of love?

[This message has been edited by drummachine, 04-25-2003]


This message is a reply to:
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drummachine
Inactive Member


Message 50 of 82 (38080)
04-25-2003 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Brian
04-16-2003 1:24 PM


Re: Jesus
Brian,

Why do you think He was doing the will of the Father?


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drummachine
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 82 (38082)
04-25-2003 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Brad McFall
04-16-2003 1:38 PM


Re: Jesus
Brad,

Would you please summarize this?


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drummachine
Inactive Member


Message 52 of 82 (38083)
04-25-2003 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by compmage
04-17-2003 2:49 AM


compmage,

Would you like convincing evidence?


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Replies to this message:
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drummachine
Inactive Member


Message 53 of 82 (38086)
04-25-2003 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by sagg
04-17-2003 10:17 AM


Re: Jesus
sagg,

It's prophesied in the Old Testament that the animal sacrifices would stop.


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John
Inactive Member


Message 54 of 82 (38087)
04-25-2003 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by drummachine
04-25-2003 7:53 PM


I would, but haven't you already bailed on a topic or two where you were trying to provide that evidence? I believe I even started a topic based on your list of fulfilled prophecies.

------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com


This message is a reply to:
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drummachine
Inactive Member


Message 55 of 82 (38092)
04-25-2003 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by crashfrog
04-18-2003 9:59 PM


Re: Jesus
crashfrog,

As it turns out, I can make an intellectual decision on the matter. Since it has never been shown that God intervenes in the world in a capacity that could be recognized to be statistically significant (i.e. different from random chance), I can decide that gods don't exist. Makes perfect sense to me and answers many more questions then it raises, unlike belief in the god of the bible.

He does intervene. It starts with us all humbling ourselves, turning from our sin and receiving His free gift. I believe He knows the pain people go through and has compassion for them. But He doesn't work in a way we want Him to. His ways are higher. He is building His kingdom through the hands of His people. I struggled with how can there be a God of love with suffering but if you have truly read His word, received Him into your life and wanted to know Him He would show you His love is greater than all things. We look at the world and say, "If an all powerful and all knowing God won't stop suffering He's a monster!" But death will not reign forever. Look at the account of Jesus Christ. He laid down His life and suffered more than all mankind for the sake of mankind. Why is there death and suffering in the world? Because a perfect world has been corrupted by man's choice of sin. Because if not choice love would be rendered meaningless. Or He could of not created anything and we would not be hear. But through this man-causing-fall of death He has an eternal plan of life, love and righteousness for all who receive Him. There were over 500 witnesses, archaeolgy and the testimony of the writings themselves. He said come to me all who labor and I will give you rest. I'm meek and lowly and you will find rest for your souls. Who said that but Him alone? And that's the promise but it's only if you seek Him with ALL your heart. But I say that as one who fails continually. That's why it's about His eternal love and grace. He said you will have tribulation in the world but peace inside. There is enough evidence that shows there is a creator. For example before it happened Christ said the temple in Jerusalem would be destroyed. It was in 70AD. He died in 30AD. Even BC and AD are from the Lord. Now it's BCE and CE. One analogy. Did George Washington live? How do you know, we don't see him? But were talking about the Author of Life. Not a president.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by crashfrog, posted 04-18-2003 9:59 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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drummachine
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 82 (38093)
04-25-2003 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by John
04-25-2003 8:02 PM


John,

I'm trying to go through all the posts I need to reply back to. My apologies for the delay.

[This message has been edited by drummachine, 04-25-2003]


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Percy
Member
Posts: 18258
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 57 of 82 (38094)
04-25-2003 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by drummachine
04-25-2003 8:22 PM


Evidence of Godly Intervention
Drum writes:

He does intervene. It starts with us all humbling ourselves, turning from our sin and receiving His free gift.

Okay, you say he *does* intervene, but...

But He doesn't work in a way we want Him to. His ways are higher.

So how do you tell the difference between intervention by God and something that just happens?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
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John
Inactive Member


Message 58 of 82 (38096)
04-25-2003 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by drummachine
04-25-2003 8:24 PM


Thanks...

... just making sure you don't forget.

------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com


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Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 59 of 82 (38104)
04-26-2003 2:44 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by drummachine
04-25-2003 7:43 PM


Re: Hey Andya...
Muslims more often refer to Muhammad as 'the Messenger of Allah (Rasul Allah)' rather than 'the Prophet (Nabi)'. He was an ordinary man just like every one of us, and he died a natural death at the age of 63 (who said he was poisoned? Sources please). To know Allah, we study the Qur'an. The 'Satanic Verses' episode was only a myth.

'Love your enemies'...if I point a gun to your head would you love me? Allah is a God of Justice. Did not your God of love recently inspired violence against the peoples of Iraq and Afghanistan? Our sin is our own responsibility and there is no 'original sin' in Islam. If one repent and do good deeds to make up for his/her sins, one's sins are forgiven. The Muslim is not somebody accused gulity of carrying the original sin from birth, so don't confuse that part of your theology with mine.


This message is a reply to:
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Mister Pamboli
Member (Idle past 5623 days)
Posts: 634
From: Washington, USA
Joined: 12-10-2001


Message 60 of 82 (38106)
04-26-2003 3:02 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by drummachine
04-25-2003 8:22 PM


Re: Jesus
quote:
Look at the account of Jesus Christ. He laid down His life and suffered more than all mankind for the sake of mankind.
You think so? I have heard an interesting suggestion that Judas suffered more than Jesus. Let's face it he played an essential part in God's redemptive plan, and suffers the eternal torments of the damned for his role, whereas Jesus had merely a few hours on the cross - a suffering he shared with thieves and any number of other Roman criminals. Moreover, being blessed with the perfect knowledge of a divine being, he knew it would not last forever.

There has to be a lot more to our redemption than a measure of suffering.

quote:
Why is there death and suffering in the world? Because a perfect world has been corrupted by man's choice of sin.
Yeh sure it's all our fault and your God is blameless. Why did death enter the world? Because two people stole an apple knowing it was wrong? No second chances, no indication of how serious the consequences were, no justice, no mercy, no forgiveness.

Edited to be a little less in your face.

[This message has been edited by Mister Pamboli, 04-26-2003]


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