EvC Forum: Noah's Flood Came Down. It's Goin Back Up!!

Hi back atcha, Buzz. Thanks for the warm welcome. All right, let's get to it:

Buzsaw writes:

In Revelation 11:6 we have the account of two very unique prophets of God. "These have the power to shut the heaven, that it rain not during the reign of their prophecy, and they have the power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to smite the earth with every plague, as often as they shall desire." In verse three it gives the length of the time of their prophesing as three and a half years. They are finally killed and their dead bodies are left on the streets of Jerusalem for 3 1/2 days as the people of all nations view their dead bodies and rejoice to the point of passing gifts to each other. (TV makes this viewing possible.) Before TV, all figured this couldn't be literal. This all comes during what is the time of God's wrath on the nations.

That verse states (to me, anyway) that such a feat is within the ability of the two prophets. Unfortunately, I don't see anything that indicates how often the prophets will use their abilities. You're making an assumption (about a 3 1/2 yr drought) that is not supported by the text. I'd comment on your statement about TV, but I think ConsequentAtheist has dibs on that issue.

Buzsaw writes:

I'm just assuming that since these guys don't let much rain come to the extent that the nations are hoppin mad at them, there's gonna be drought. Besides, It sound like a lotta red algae making the water look like blood and likely stagnet low rivers and lakes will cause this. I don't know, does this type of thing cause red algae? Maybe it's something else that makes the water red like blood.

And as I said before, you're making an assumption on something I don't feel is well supported by the text. This does not lend credence to your argument. As for your muddied, er--bloodied waters... You're probably thinking of a Red Tide. You can find out all about it with a Google search. You also wrote: "It sounds like a lotta red algae making the water look like blood..." But Revelations 11:6 states that the prophets have the power to turn the waters into blood. That doesn't sound much like "looks like" blood to me. The way I read that bit, I'm thinking transmutation, right? Like water into wine?

Buzsaw writes:

Ask any old fart like me if the weather's changed in the last 60 years overall. Take a survey of the older folks over 60 that you know or can speak to.

John fully answered this item in post 65. Read it again, please. BTW, I've read your response to him, and you seem to be waving away his concerns with more assertions. This is not the way to strengthen your case. Your position would be markedly improved with some (non-Biblical) supporting evidence.

Buzsaw writes:

Little to no rain for 3 1/2 years globally? Somehow this's gotta happen via a slight adjustment by the master weather adjuster upstairs, lmo, but it's going to come to pass, and it'l no doubt mean drout. Also in Revelation 6 the pale horse of the apocalypse brings famine and famine is usually associated with drout.

Since I still don't feel your 3 1/2 yr drought is in any way supported by the text, I can see no reason to comment any further on this one.

Buzsaw writes:

Haven't you been listening to the news the past few years as to how much forest fires are on the alarming increase? They're getting much more frequent and much larger in scope.

I certainly have been listening. I've also been climbing in Colorado and Wyoming over the past couple years, and have had quite a few hazy climbs as a result. But this does not necessarily mean that forest fires, overall, are becoming increasingly frequent. You would need some data to support that theory. And the U.S. Forest service might have something like that... (Hint, hint.)

Buzsaw writes:

Um, I dono, but it's predicted to become so dim that the sun and moon will look red like blood. What holds the moisture up there? I guess the same god who made it all in the first place will do his adjusty thingy bit to do it.

Ah, so you don't understand that bit either. Me too. Cool. We ARE making some headway!

What holds all that moisture up there? Er, gravity?

Buzsaw writes:

I suppose it would depend on the angle it hit and the size of the meteor. I'm just suggesting that as a possibility. Don't know the logistics of such an event, for sure, and likely neither does anybody else for sure. Yah, they can do all their sophisticated iffy theorizing on what would happen, but they have nothing to go on in reality.

You are mistaken about no one knowing the logistics of such an event. This link might be a good starting point: http://impact.arc.nasa.gov/index.html The (meteor impact) concepts are really not all that sophisticated. And they're not particularly iffy, either. You might be surprised by just how much scientists have to go on. (Be sure to go to the multimedia section in that link---there's some fantastic depictions of what a planet-killer type impact might look like.)

Macavity: Could it be that the nature of the prophecy is sufficiently ambiguous to allow the prophecy to fit almost ANY phenomena?

Buzsaw: Nope. You gotta have enough changes in the norm to see it beginning to happen. This n that catastrophe has been the norm, but when you see rapid fire catastrophe as well as other prophecies fulfilled for the "latter days," you know it's near. Jesus said "look up" when these things begin to happen. First time in the history of the world when so much is happening "up." Rockets, satelites, weather patterns, jet streaks, bombs, aircraft, missles, tornadoes, and so forth.

But I didn't ask you how to discern prophecy. I asked you, in a hyperbolic way, if there was any chance prophecy was open to multiple interpretations. Your answer was "Nope." Why isn't it?

Buzsaw writes:

As I understand the Bible, life was wonderful under similar conditions. The great flood was the first ever rain, producing the first ever rainbow. It'l take a LOTTA heat to do this. Read about it in Revelation 16:8 .

Life was wonderful, huh? You didn't go looking for the (mainstream science) heat/pressure conditions necessary for a vapor canopy, did you? Please search for a non-YEC discussion about the vapor canopy and then we'll talk about the merits of your claim.

Buzsaw writes:

I dono. I just sain it may have some bearing on things. However, I do believe this; that local things like local volcanoes or nuclear blasts ect may have a cooling effect on the region, but if you have world wide evaporation going on all at the same time everywhere, that's going to have a global insulating effect so as little sunlight will be need to warm the earth. It will be like a filter blanket to insulate the earth from cold outer space. When the density of the canopy becomes just right, the lack of sunlight will be perfectly offset by the insulating effect of the vapor canopy and you have the pre-flood super climate on earth as before.

As for earthquakes, Biblically speaking, the last bowl of wrath in Revelation 16 has this worldwide earthquake (dominoe effect, imo) where ALL CITIES, ALL ISLANDS, AND ALL MOUNTAINS are shaken down so as to fairly level the earth to (imo) somewhat like it was before the flood.

OK, let me get this straight: Erupting volcanoes and a WW III scenario plunge the planet into a nuclear winter; meanwhile, a global drought caused by "something happening with the sun" manages to offset the big chill. Next, the debris shroud traps the heat that's evaporating earth's oceans, acting kinda like a big radioactive space blanket... And then, somehow, conditions revert to a state not too far removed from heaven on earth. Have I got that right?

Uh... Wow. I take it this scheme requires God to pull off some fairly serious miracles, yes?

Concerning your comment on earthquakes: start reading those aforementioned texts, please.

--Macavity

[This message has been edited by Macavity, 05-31-2003]

5 online now:	AZPaul3, kjsimons, Minnemooseus (Adminnemooseus), Omnivorous, Tanypteryx
Newest Member:	ChatGPT
Post Volume:	Total: 916,773 Year: 4,030/9,624 Month: 901/974 Week: 228/286 Day: 35/109 Hour: 1/4