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Author
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Topic: Does the Errancy of Fundamentalism Disprove the God of the Bible?
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 639 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: 08-11-2004
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Message 11 of 154 (282555)
01-30-2006 11:56 AM
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Reply to: Message 10 by Hal Jordan
01-30-2006 11:00 AM
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Re: You have a callback
I believe the reasoning is that a perfect being would not create something that is less than perfect, and if something wears out, then it it is 'perfect' to begin with.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 10 by Hal Jordan, posted 01-30-2006 11:00 AM | | Hal Jordan has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 12 by Hal Jordan, posted 01-30-2006 12:00 PM | | ramoss has not replied |
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 639 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: 08-11-2004
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Re: Bratcher's argument regarding the matter
Actually, the arguement about GOd is making the logical fallacy of assumping that the only possible god is the god of the bible. At most, you can say that the bible does not accurate represent God.
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 639 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: 08-11-2004
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Re: Bratcher's argument regarding the matter
The atheists that I have talked to that come from fundamentalist christian backgrounds disbelieve the other gods equally, but is more willing to discuess the Judeo Christian God as the one to disbelieve in the most (probably because they know the myths the best)
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 639 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: 08-11-2004
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Message 27 of 154 (283840)
02-04-2006 9:22 AM
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Reply to: Message 26 by Evopeach
02-04-2006 12:21 AM
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Re: Conservative Scholarship
Nwr does bring up the point quite clearly that those people who claim that the bible is enerrant to use a double standard when either looking at either works of known fiction, or the scriptures of other religions. From someone looking at the biblical scripture from OUTSIDE the religion, there is no difference between the Bible, and the Vedas, or the Koran.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 26 by Evopeach, posted 02-04-2006 12:21 AM | | Evopeach has not replied |
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 639 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: 08-11-2004
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Message 43 of 154 (298924)
03-28-2006 7:15 AM
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Reply to: Message 37 by Rainman2
03-28-2006 12:12 AM
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Re: Bratcher's argument regarding the matter
Well, out of those 'external' sources to Jesus's life, there is not one non-biblical source that was written before 70 C.E. When it comes to the passage from Josephus (antiquities 18), apparently, the passage was at least tampereed with drastically in the 4th century. Being that this is the case, and other christian appolists had used Antiquities 18 BEFORE the 4th century as a source, yet never mentioned this passage, it appears that the entire passage was inserted. The other non-biblical sources were during the first century, and dealt with christian, and christian beliefs.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 37 by Rainman2, posted 03-28-2006 12:12 AM | | Rainman2 has not replied |
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 639 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: 08-11-2004
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Message 63 of 154 (304525)
04-15-2006 11:13 PM
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Reply to: Message 62 by Rainman2
04-15-2006 9:46 PM
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Re: Exact quote
Well Jesus and the NT say the same thing about creation as the OT. Matter and energy, by any way we now no of can never be created or destroyed.
And where does Jeuss and the NT, or the OT say this? Chapter and verse please. And I think you are misundersanding what 'create' is in the ancient hebrew language for Genesis. You are reading a translation , and looking at it from modern eyes, not from the eyes of someone in the ANE culture. Next, the 'big bang' was not a big explosion. That is a big misunderstanding of what the theory is.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 62 by Rainman2, posted 04-15-2006 9:46 PM | | Rainman2 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 66 by Rainman2, posted 04-19-2006 4:40 PM | | ramoss has replied |
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 639 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: 08-11-2004
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Message 67 of 154 (305381)
04-19-2006 9:50 PM
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Reply to: Message 66 by Rainman2
04-19-2006 4:40 PM
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Re: Exact quote
Why, genesis of course. You would have to understand the hebrew. You do realise the word 'create' is a translation. You also have to look at it in the context of the ancient hebrew culture. From the Jewish Study Bible
Hence the translation,
When God began to create heaven and earth . This clause describes things just before the process of creation. To modern people, the opposite of created order is 'nothing', this is, a vacume. To the ancients, the opposite of created oder was much worse than "nothing." It was an active, malevolent force we best term "chaos". In this verse, chaos is envisioned as a dark, undiffernitated mass of water. In 1.9. God creates dry land (and the Seas, whichi can only exist when water is bounded by dry land). But in 1.1-2.3 , water itself, and darkness too, are primoridial (contrast Isa 45.7). In this midrash, Bar Kappara upolds the troubling notion that the Torah shows that God created the world out of preexisting material. But other rabbis worry that acknolegeing this would cause people to liken God to a king that built his palace on a garbage dump, thus arrogantly impunging His Magesty (Gen Rab 1.5). In the ancient Near East, however, to say that a deity had subdued chaos is to give him the highest praise.
This message has been edited by ramoss, 04-19-2006 09:52 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 66 by Rainman2, posted 04-19-2006 4:40 PM | | Rainman2 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 68 by Rainman2, posted 04-21-2006 3:42 PM | | ramoss has replied |
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 639 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: 08-11-2004
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Message 69 of 154 (305733)
04-21-2006 4:35 PM
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Reply to: Message 68 by Rainman2
04-21-2006 3:42 PM
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Re: Exact quote
The book of Hebrews was not written within a few centuries of Genesis. The Book of Hebrews is a much later Christian book. Your retrofitting concepts that are hundreds of years out of date does not change what the ancient hebrews thought of cosmology during the time period that Genesis was authored
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 68 by Rainman2, posted 04-21-2006 3:42 PM | | Rainman2 has not replied |
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 639 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: 08-11-2004
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Message 82 of 154 (305897)
04-22-2006 10:25 AM
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Reply to: Message 73 by Rainman2
04-21-2006 8:02 PM
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Re: Exact quote
That , of course, is an out of context quote. There are many Christians who do not believe that Jesus saying 'My father and I are one" means he is claiming to be god in that phrase (in context. In actuallty, this means that Jesus thought the he and god were of one purpose, not co-equal.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 73 by Rainman2, posted 04-21-2006 8:02 PM | | Rainman2 has not replied |
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