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Author Topic:   Does the Errancy of Fundamentalism Disprove the God of the Bible?
truthlover
Member (Idle past 4081 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 83 of 154 (305900)
04-22-2006 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by Rainman2
04-21-2006 7:14 PM


Re: Exact quote
the inqusition may have expanded to include Muslims and Jews, but it was first directed at groups like the Donatists and the Albigenses, because they believed the bible and rejected infant baptism.
Um, the Donatists were around a 1000 years before the inquisition, and they probably baptized infants. They really only disagreed with the church on whether or not to receive back Christians who had lapsed under persecution.
See Donatism - Wikipedia. I don't know how reliable wikipedia is, but in this case they're right, and their description is short and simple.
The Albigenses were persecuted by the Inquisition, but they were accused of Manichaeanism. They were said to believe that Christ did not have an actual physical body. Infant baptism and belief in the Bible were not the issue for either of these groups.
The Inquisition would have gone after a group for rejecting infant baptism, but then, so did Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli. The Anabaptists or "Radical Reformation" was persecuted by Protestants and Catholics alike for their rejection of infant baptism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Rainman2, posted 04-21-2006 7:14 PM Rainman2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by smak_84, posted 04-22-2006 11:08 AM truthlover has not replied
 Message 87 by Rainman2, posted 04-22-2006 11:36 PM truthlover has replied

  
truthlover
Member (Idle past 4081 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 95 of 154 (306211)
04-23-2006 10:41 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by Rainman2
04-22-2006 11:36 PM


I was just saying if they persecuted Christian because they believed the Bible and they claimed to know the Bible then it's not suprising that they would condemn a scientist like Galileo that went against what they taught about the positions of the earth and the sun (which they didn't get from the Bible.)
Yes, they did get it from the Bible. Joshua told the sun to stand still in the sky. Isaiah had it go back ten degrees for...uh, shoot, I think it was for Ahaz, but maybe not.
Either way, they would have argued, "If you're going to believe the Bible, then you need to believe the sun moves, not the earth, or how did Joshua command it to stand still?"
I answer this, because later you talk about scientists defending Origin of Species, and the fact is that those who oppose evolution now are no different than those who persecuted Galileo and Copernicus. They don't have the political power to throw anyone in jail, but if they did, they would.
My point is that some things the creationists and fundamentalists do are exactly like the Catholics and they don't reflect Christ very often, either.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Rainman2, posted 04-22-2006 11:36 PM Rainman2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Rainman2, posted 04-29-2006 6:57 PM truthlover has not replied

  
truthlover
Member (Idle past 4081 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 96 of 154 (306219)
04-23-2006 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Discreet Label
04-23-2006 4:50 PM


Re: Exact quote
Your web site contradicts your statements about Galileo.
The pope suspected that he was the model for Simplicio. He ordered the book banned, and also ordered Galileo to appear before the Inquisition in Rome for the crime of teaching the Copernican theory after being ordered not to do so.
While the pope may have been irritated about being the model for Simplicio, Galileo was charged with teaching the Copernican theory, which is that the earth goes around the sun. Your article also points out that a fellow named Giordano Bruno was burnt to death by the Catholic Church in 1600 for the Copernican theory plus saying there was life on other planets.
In fact, Galileo was originally threatened and ordered to stop teaching this theory because of the dastardly crime of interpreting the Bible without being a clergyman.
All this according to your link.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Discreet Label, posted 04-23-2006 4:50 PM Discreet Label has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by smak_84, posted 04-23-2006 11:40 PM truthlover has replied
 Message 99 by Discreet Label, posted 04-24-2006 12:18 AM truthlover has not replied

  
truthlover
Member (Idle past 4081 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 98 of 154 (306234)
04-24-2006 12:11 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by smak_84
04-23-2006 11:40 PM


Re: Exact quote
By the whole Catholic Church, or by a directive from a few of its members? If he was burnt by Cardinal so and so then he was burnt by Cardinal so and so, but not the Catholic Church as a whole (don't be condemning innocent people here, as thousands of Catholics at that time knew nothing of the event).
You are going to have a really rough time on any debate board if you are going to take references to the RCC personally. The RCC--its hierarchy or whatever you want to call it--has take responsibility for making an error in Galileo's case, and in many other cases. You can't go around being offended because someones said "the Catholics did this" or "the RCC did this."
To answer your question directly, the link suggests that Bruno was burnt at the order of the Inquisition, but it's only a hint, not a statement, so I didn't attribute it to the Inquisition directly.
What's the point of including this passage anyways? It's not really relevant to this discussion about Galileo.
If you'll look at the post I was responding to, you'll see that it was very relevant. The person was trying to say the RCC didn't persecute Galileo over the issue of the centrality of the earth in the universe. He was wrong, and the link he gave contradicted him. Not only did it contradict him, but it gave another name that was put to death, around the same time, over that issue.
You should easily have recognized the significance of this. You slobbered all over that post I was responding to, hoping you would find the RCC vindicated on this issue. Good grief, man, the RCC itself has apologized over the issue.
The reason interpeeting the Bible without being a clergyman was viewed as a problem was for a number of reasons:
I know this. I was raised Catholic, and I paid attention in Catechism, because I was pretty serious even as a child.
Are you trying to justify this practice? You mention the dangers of the uneducated interpreting the Scriptures, but if a person could read the Scriptures, that probably meant they weren't uneducated in those days.
Listen, that period of Catholic rule is known as the Dark Ages. The Roman Catholic hierarchy stifled and almost eliminated education for the common person. Don't try to defend it. Even the RCC itself has given up defending it.
If the RCC will produce a holy, spiritual, and united congregation, I will praise them for it and have fellowship with them. I'm not even asking for them to unite the over 1 billion that exist; just one holy, spiritual, and united congregation. My problem with the RCC has nothing to do with the past. I'm willing to let those awful bygones by bygones (as long as the RCC agrees never to hold political power again).
I was not attacking the RCC. I was opposing a revisionist version of history that was being offered. That's why I posted.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by smak_84, posted 04-23-2006 11:40 PM smak_84 has not replied

Replies to this message:
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