Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 83 (8942 total)
34 online now:
Newest Member: John Sullivan
Post Volume: Total: 863,715 Year: 18,751/19,786 Month: 1,171/1,705 Week: 423/518 Day: 41/58 Hour: 8/11


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   is it possible that....
countryLover198
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 55 (14257)
07-27-2002 12:48 PM


...someone like Jesus could create a new religion like christianity??

i'm wondering and i'm waiting for answers,if you can
thanx!


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by mark24, posted 07-27-2002 3:29 PM countryLover198 has not yet responded
 Message 3 by John, posted 07-27-2002 8:02 PM countryLover198 has not yet responded
 Message 14 by nos482, posted 09-10-2002 7:46 AM countryLover198 has not yet responded
 Message 28 by Philip, posted 09-13-2002 1:33 AM countryLover198 has not yet responded
 Message 37 by acmhttu001_2006, posted 09-15-2002 10:48 AM countryLover198 has not yet responded

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 3483 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 2 of 55 (14258)
07-27-2002 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by countryLover198
07-27-2002 12:48 PM


quote:
Originally posted by countryLover198:
...someone like Jesus could create a new religion like christianity??

i'm wondering and i'm waiting for answers,if you can
thanx!


Well somebody did!

Mark

------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by countryLover198, posted 07-27-2002 12:48 PM countryLover198 has not yet responded

    
John
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 55 (14264)
07-27-2002 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by countryLover198
07-27-2002 12:48 PM


quote:
Originally posted by countryLover198:
...someone like Jesus could create a new religion like christianity??

i'm wondering and i'm waiting for answers,if you can
thanx!


Of course, these are called 'cults' which is exactly what Christianity was called in its inception.

A man named L. Ron Hubbard did just what you suggest not too terribly long ago. Rev. Moon did the same.

------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by countryLover198, posted 07-27-2002 12:48 PM countryLover198 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by nator, posted 07-28-2002 6:17 PM John has responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 458 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 4 of 55 (14319)
07-28-2002 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by John
07-27-2002 8:02 PM


quote:
Originally posted by John:
quote:
Originally posted by countryLover198:
...someone like Jesus could create a new religion like christianity??

i'm wondering and i'm waiting for answers,if you can
thanx!


Of course, these are called 'cults' which is exactly what Christianity was called in its inception.

A man named L. Ron Hubbard did just what you suggest not too terribly long ago. Rev. Moon did the same.


Some people consider that John Smith did that also.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by John, posted 07-27-2002 8:02 PM John has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by John, posted 07-28-2002 6:40 PM nator has not yet responded
 Message 11 by gene90, posted 08-22-2002 9:54 AM nator has not yet responded

    
John
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 55 (14323)
07-28-2002 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by nator
07-28-2002 6:17 PM


quote:
Originally posted by schrafinator:
quote:
Originally posted by John:
quote:
Originally posted by countryLover198:
...someone like Jesus could create a new religion like christianity??

i'm wondering and i'm waiting for answers,if you can
thanx!


Of course, these are called 'cults' which is exactly what Christianity was called in its inception.

A man named L. Ron Hubbard did just what you suggest not too terribly long ago. Rev. Moon did the same.


Some people consider that John Smith did that also.


Yes indeed-ie... forgot about him... but so as not to slight anyone I want to make it understood that I am not using the term 'cult' derogatively.

------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by nator, posted 07-28-2002 6:17 PM nator has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Me, posted 08-21-2002 3:00 PM John has not yet responded

  
Me
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 55 (15857)
08-21-2002 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by John
07-28-2002 6:40 PM


[QUOTE]Originally posted by John:
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by schrafinator:
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by John:
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by countryLover198:
[B]...someone like Jesus could create a new religion like christianity??
B][/QUOTE]

A man named L. Ron Hubbard did just what you suggest not too terribly long ago. Rev. Moon did the same.

[/B][/QUOTE]

Some people consider that John Smith did that also.[/B][/QUOTE]

[/B][/QUOTE]

As also did Mohammed. However, for what it's worth, our current Christian religion is based on the Catholic religion, which was developed by the Romans as a state religion a while after Christ. I don't think Christ said a lot about the Trinity, and less about the Virgin Mary (though someone might wish to correct me!). Much of the religion was developed to incorporate other beliefs which were also current at the time. You could say it evolved...

So I am not sure if Christ would recognise much of it if he saw it today. I think that's what happens with most successful religions.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by John, posted 07-28-2002 6:40 PM John has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Andya Primanda, posted 08-22-2002 2:46 AM Me has not yet responded
 Message 10 by blitz77, posted 08-22-2002 9:27 AM Me has responded

  
Tranquility Base
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 55 (15885)
08-21-2002 10:34 PM


Whatever the case the Bible and Judaism/Christianity is unique on this planet in myriad aspects.

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by John, posted 08-22-2002 8:43 AM Tranquility Base has not yet responded
 Message 18 by nos482, posted 09-11-2002 7:44 AM Tranquility Base has not yet responded

  
Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 55 (15892)
08-22-2002 2:46 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Me
08-21-2002 3:00 PM


OK then, should we start applying evolutionary explanations to religion? All religions start as a cult, and if it survived its first ordeals and gained a lot of followers and political power, then it may survive and thrive. Later the established religion underwent separations (speciation?) and such. That is how we have all the religions today.

Oops i forget to put God in...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Me, posted 08-21-2002 3:00 PM Me has not yet responded

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 55 (15903)
08-22-2002 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Tranquility Base
08-21-2002 10:34 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
Whatever the case the Bible and Judaism/Christianity is unique on this planet in myriad aspects.

Yes, and it also shares much with other religions.

How does unique equate with accurate anyway? (assuming, of course, that this is where you are going with the statement.)

------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Tranquility Base, posted 08-21-2002 10:34 PM Tranquility Base has not yet responded

  
blitz77
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 55 (15912)
08-22-2002 9:27 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Me
08-21-2002 3:00 PM


quote:
However, for what it's worth, our current Christian religion is based on the Catholic religion

Kind of wrong there. Catholicism says that the head of the church is the pope, and base many of their teachings on the leaders teachings rather than the bible. That is why the Protestant group came into being. They 'protested', as they based their teachings on the bible. And so the church split up.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Me, posted 08-21-2002 3:00 PM Me has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Me, posted 08-22-2002 3:24 PM blitz77 has not yet responded
 Message 13 by Peter, posted 09-10-2002 7:42 AM blitz77 has not yet responded

  
gene90
Member (Idle past 2111 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 11 of 55 (15914)
08-22-2002 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by nator
07-28-2002 6:17 PM


[QUOTE][B]Some people consider that John Smith did that also.[/QUOTE]

[/B]

I've never heard of John Smith but I'm sure there are lots out there. Perhaps you mean Joseph Smith, Junior, born in Sharon, VT, founded the LDS church in Palmyra, NY, murdered with his brother Hyrum while unjustly imprisoned (for treason) in the jail of Carthage, Illinois, on 27 June 1844.

I wonder about people who start religions that so offend their neighbors that the neighbors want to do them physical harm. I wonder more about the supposed hucksters who the neighbors find so offensive that the governor of the state authorizes an Extermination Order, encouraging any member of the group to be killed on sight. Finally, I wonder most about hucksters that spend months in jail dungeons and give up their own lives for the religions they found.

The idea that Smith deliberately misled people is unlikely. I think it is obvious that he at least believed in what he did.

[This message has been edited by gene90, 08-22-2002]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by nator, posted 07-28-2002 6:17 PM nator has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by nos482, posted 09-10-2002 7:52 AM gene90 has not yet responded

  
Me
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 55 (15936)
08-22-2002 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by blitz77
08-22-2002 9:27 AM


quote:
Originally posted by blitz77:
quote:
However, for what it's worth, our current Christian religion is based on the Catholic religion

Kind of wrong there. Catholicism says that the head of the church is the pope...That is why the Protestant group came into being.


Wow - this response took my breath away! In the context (Muslim, L Ron Hubbard and Rev.Moon), does anyone doubt that all Christian sects are based on Catholicism, spinning off for various doctrinal reasons? I was talking about all the sects - did you think I was just talking about Protestantism (which is only about 1/4 of all Christian faiths)?

The context clearly shows, in any case, that the Catholic Religion I was talking about was the early Roman development of Christianity. I think it was being called Catholic by about 500, well before the first major split with the Eastern Orthodox just after 1000. My point was that the religion which Jesus started was not the same as the one we know now as Christianity - so even if one man starts a religion it may not remain the same. Perhaps I should have said 'derived from' the original Catholic religion, but I think 'based on' is quite accurate.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by blitz77, posted 08-22-2002 9:27 AM blitz77 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Wordswordsman, posted 09-12-2002 7:24 AM Me has not yet responded

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 2211 days)
Posts: 2160
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 13 of 55 (17066)
09-10-2002 7:42 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by blitz77
08-22-2002 9:27 AM


I thought Henry VIII created protestantism because the
pope wouldn't allow him to divorce.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by blitz77, posted 08-22-2002 9:27 AM blitz77 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by frank, posted 09-10-2002 11:01 AM Peter has responded

    
nos482
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 55 (17068)
09-10-2002 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by countryLover198
07-27-2002 12:48 PM


quote:
Originally posted by countryLover198:
...someone like Jesus could create a new religion like christianity??

i'm wondering and i'm waiting for answers,if you can
thanx!


Jesus didn't create the religion of Christianity. Paul did many years after Christ had died on the cross.

The only difference between a mainstream religion and a cult is who is in power.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by countryLover198, posted 07-27-2002 12:48 PM countryLover198 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Wordswordsman, posted 09-12-2002 7:46 AM nos482 has responded

  
nos482
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 55 (17069)
09-10-2002 7:52 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by gene90
08-22-2002 9:54 AM


Originally posted by gene90:

I've never heard of John Smith but I'm sure there are lots out there. Perhaps you mean Joseph Smith, Junior, born in Sharon, VT, founded the LDS church in Palmyra, NY, murdered with his brother Hyrum while unjustly imprisoned (for treason) in the jail of Carthage, Illinois, on 27 June 1844.

That is the claim of all who want to assert martyrdom. Christ actually did break the law of the time.

I wonder about people who start religions that so offend their neighbors that the neighbors want to do them physical harm. I wonder more about the supposed hucksters who the neighbors find so offensive that the governor of the state authorizes an Extermination Order, encouraging any member of the group to be killed on sight. Finally, I wonder most about hucksters that spend months in jail dungeons and give up their own lives for the religions they found.

The religiously deluded most often think that they have the absolute TRUTH on their side about god and that they mistakenly think that people will automatically believe and accept whatever they say because of this.

The idea that Smith deliberately misled people is unlikely. I think it is obvious that he at least believed in what he did.

Maybe the first person he should have worried about misleading was himself. I suppose that Koresh and Jones actually believed what they were doing was their god's will as well.

[This message has been edited by nos482, 09-10-2002]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by gene90, posted 08-22-2002 9:54 AM gene90 has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019