The Bible's Flat Earth

I find it interesting that, at least by Galileo's time, the educated churchmen had accepted a spherical Earth and already done their apologetics-shifting to show how the Bible agreed with them. Some of the Greeks had gone beyond flat-earth concepts in Classical times - Earth's shadow on the Moon during an eclipse, Ol' Whazisname measuring the diameter of the Earth with noontime shadows - but the word must not have made it to the authors of Enoch or Matthew.I have never read enough Augustine or the like to know what their take on the issue was - and I don't know, either, whether the early Church Fathers read the Pythagorean round-earthers or not.But I plan to learn some of that in this thread.

Or it started meaning "sphere" after educated folks became aware that the Earth was one, and stuck that definition in. Mr Strong was comfortably in that time period.And there is a Hebrew word for "ball," which you'll agree is often a sphere other than in football/rugby. Isaiah 22:18, if you're interested.Edited by Coragyps, : add citation

---

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

So Frisbees and soccer balls were the same shape in old Jerusalem? I don't believe you, though I'm certainly no Hebrew scholar.Isa 22:18 "He will surely violently turn and toss thee [like] a ball...." where "ball" is from h1754 duwr.
Bible Search and Study Tools - Blue Letter Bible

---

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

Bullcrap, Buz. It has been pointed out at least twice on this thread that ancient Hebrew had a word for "ball." A ball is most often a sphere, except in American football and rugby. And even if this term were absent from Isaiah, you would have no possible way of knowing that there wasn't some other word for "sphere" that just never got written into Scripture.

---

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

What are you saying, Peg? That the ancient Hebrews knew the earth was shaped like a football but just wrote "circle" to mislead us? What the heck are you on about? Buz categorically said Hebrew had no word for "sphere." He's been shown to be wrong. "Ball" vey often is a synonym for "sphere."Get over it.

---

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

That would be significant if it were than an assertion. You have no more idea than I do whether "chwg" could mean "sphere" in 400 BC. You only have Strong's word for it - and he knew the Earth is a ball!

---

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

Oh dear! We are getting deep in the woo now.....I want to see references for these asinine assertions, Peg.

---

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

Not as hard as I laughed when you told us that "immovable" means "whizzing around the Sun in a mildly chaotic orbit at 107,000 kilometers per hour." That is funnier.Edited by Coragyps, : No reason given.Edited by Coragyps, : not enough coffee yet

---

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

It is left as an exercise for the reader to decide whether these two quotes are harmonious.

---

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

Nonsense. I'd be surprised if a discount-store basketball is even close to being as spherical as the Earth is - the polar diameter is 99.66% of the equatorial diameter for the planet. It's way too close to spherical for eyeball inspection to tell a difference.But Earth doesn't look much like a frisbee.

Agreed. But more nearly a ball than a frisbee, right? You 1) misremembered or 2) read some poor science fiction.

Black, welcome aboard! Your avatar is creepier than mine!Have you read this whole thread yet? Granny has answered many of your questions repeatedly already: you'd save her some typing if you would review what's already been said.Edited by Coragyps, : No reason given.

---

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

Unlike in the last four millenia, when we didn't see any of those?[/OT snark]

---

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

ROFL. In the scale model I show grade-school kids, the Sun is a beach ball and the Earth a BB 155 feet away. Sirius, the nearest star visible fom Snyder, is 12,000 miles away. Our scale-model galaxy is, hmm, maybe 150,000,000 miles across - beyond the real Sun. The scale-model Andromeda Galaxy - the nearest big one - is out around the real Neptune. If your third heaven is "above" those other two, the Big Guy must have an odd-looking support for his throne. Very odd-looking.

---

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

[qs]If i said to you that "the earth has been an immovable part of the universe for a long long time", im sure you wouldnt assume i was trying to tell you that it was sitting motionless and idle or non rotating.;/qsThat's precisely what I would assume. Humpty-Dumpty to the contrary, I know, but words really do have meanings, Peg. And the meanings of the English word "immovable" all center around "not moving." And your verse from Psalms reinforces what granny has been saying for a couple of weeks now: the guys that wrote all that down believed that the earth stood still - "fixed" - in the middle of everything.