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Author Topic:   The Flood and predictions.
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 29 (452404)
01-30-2008 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Motorhead
01-30-2008 4:01 AM


A guy rode out a flood on the Euphrates river, on a barge. Said flood was pretty big by the river's standards, story is told over and over....and it becomes Noah's Ark.

Maybe not even that. Could be just a yarn that someone made up to impress his grandkids. Could have started out as a smaller story, though, and grew from there, like you're suggesting here.


Spare a thought for the stay-at-home voter;
His empty eyes gaze at strange beauty shows
And a parade of the gray suited grafters:
A choice of cancer or polio. -- The Rolling Stones

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Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2383
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


Message 17 of 29 (452419)
01-30-2008 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Motorhead
01-30-2008 4:01 AM


Hello Motorhead, and welcome to EvC,
I actually think that it seems unlikely that the flood tale was based on a local flood event. It just seems to unreal, too much of a moral parable, with too many bizarre elements. I think it much more likely to have been a story made up out of whole cloth.
Of course, the real answer is lost to us.


Mutate and Survive

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nator
Member (Idle past 715 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 18 of 29 (452462)
01-30-2008 12:42 PM


probably derivitave
There is evidence that the Noahachian flood was influenced by the Epic Of Gilgamesh, an earlier sacred text, which was in turn influenced by an even earlier text, the Atrahasis Epic, which in turn was derived from Sumerian tales.

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Tree12
Junior Member (Idle past 4445 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 01-19-2008


Message 19 of 29 (453148)
02-01-2008 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by nator
01-30-2008 12:42 PM


Re: probably derivitave
There is evidence that a local flood actually took place. The stories are true as far as actually being a flood. Most scholars believe that
the Sumerian,babylonia,Assyrian and Hebrew tales all came from one more ancient source. The Euphrates valley has suffered major floods many times. There is one in particular that is close to what Bible chronology places the flood. The entire valley flooded up to the mountains in the north. In some places it left an eight foot deep layer of silt. There was signs of life below the silt nd signs above but no signs of life in the silt layer.

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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 29 (453149)
02-01-2008 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Tree12
02-01-2008 2:18 PM


Re: probably derivitave
There is one in particular that is close to what Bible chronology places the flood.

Since the Bible chronology itself is made up, I don't see the significance. Major floods occur frequently -- what is called "a hundred year flood" occurs, roughly, every one hundred years. A "two hundred year flood" occurs every two hundred years. That a major flood occurred within a couple of hundred years of Ussher's date really isn't amazing. No matter what the date is given for the flood, there would have been a major flood at that time, give or take a hundred years or so.


Spare a thought for the stay-at-home voter;
His empty eyes gaze at strange beauty shows
And a parade of the gray suited grafters:
A choice of cancer or polio. -- The Rolling Stones

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 Message 19 by Tree12, posted 02-01-2008 2:18 PM Tree12 has responded

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Tree12
Junior Member (Idle past 4445 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 01-19-2008


Message 21 of 29 (453162)
02-01-2008 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Chiroptera
02-01-2008 2:31 PM


Re: probably derivitave
That' not exactly true. There is no archeological evidence of any 100,200 or 1000 year flood that inundated the valley as much. The Euphrates used to overlow it's banks pronanly mor often that 100 yers,but there is evidence of only one flood that left a blank layer in the valley. There is only one. As for the Bible chronology being made up,that's also false,at least from the time of Noah forward. The Ahora inscription from Armenia has been dated very close to the time of Noah. The chronology from the flood back to Adam may be made up,but not the rest of it.

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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 29 (453167)
02-01-2008 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Tree12
02-01-2008 3:32 PM


Re: probably derivitave
That' not exactly true.

Okay. Thanks.


Spare a thought for the stay-at-home voter;
His empty eyes gaze at strange beauty shows
And a parade of the gray suited grafters:
A choice of cancer or polio. -- The Rolling Stones

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 Message 21 by Tree12, posted 02-01-2008 3:32 PM Tree12 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Tree12, posted 02-01-2008 3:51 PM Chiroptera has responded

  
Tree12
Junior Member (Idle past 4445 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 01-19-2008


Message 23 of 29 (453172)
02-01-2008 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Chiroptera
02-01-2008 3:40 PM


Re: probably derivitave
Sorry. I missed your reference to Ussher,which i am not familisr with.
I looked it up and your right. Ussher's dates are most likely not correct,according to archeologists. The truth is that a date form around Noah would be impossible due to the impossible lifespans prior to the flood. Archeologists have placed the time of Abraham around 2,000 B.C,which actually coincides with the Bible,according to I Kings reference to 480 years after the Exodus. The 430 years in Egypt is probably not correct,which is not compatable with the four generations. Most other texts say the Israelites were in Egypt 215 years and in Canaan prior to that for 215 years,or 430 years as a stranger n a strange land.

Edited by Tree12, : No reason given.


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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 29 (453173)
02-01-2008 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Tree12
02-01-2008 3:51 PM


Re: probably derivitave
No, I'm pretty much done with the conversation. If all you're going to do is just make unsubstantiated assertians, then it probably isn't going to go very far.


Spare a thought for the stay-at-home voter;
His empty eyes gaze at strange beauty shows
And a parade of the gray suited grafters:
A choice of cancer or polio. -- The Rolling Stones

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Tree12, posted 02-01-2008 3:51 PM Tree12 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Tree12, posted 02-01-2008 4:17 PM Chiroptera has responded

  
Tree12
Junior Member (Idle past 4445 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 01-19-2008


Message 25 of 29 (453181)
02-01-2008 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Chiroptera
02-01-2008 3:54 PM


Re: probably derivitave
O.K
It's no more unsubstantiated than saying it never took place. I don't understand why you consider it unsubstantiated. You have no contrary evidence to prove it is. Read some archeology books and find out,then let me know if it's unsubstantiated. Then you can offer evidence that substantiates your claims.

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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 29 (453188)
02-01-2008 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Tree12
02-01-2008 4:17 PM


Re: probably derivitave
Okay. Thanks.


Spare a thought for the stay-at-home voter;
His empty eyes gaze at strange beauty shows
And a parade of the gray suited grafters:
A choice of cancer or polio. -- The Rolling Stones

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Tree12, posted 02-01-2008 4:17 PM Tree12 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Tree12, posted 02-01-2008 4:48 PM Chiroptera has not yet responded

  
Tree12
Junior Member (Idle past 4445 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 01-19-2008


Message 27 of 29 (453197)
02-01-2008 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Chiroptera
02-01-2008 4:30 PM


Re: probably derivitave
Your welcome

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TheTruth
Member (Idle past 4410 days)
Posts: 60
Joined: 02-11-2008


Message 28 of 29 (455889)
02-14-2008 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Taz
01-07-2008 10:58 PM


well "hyper-microevolution stopped so we shouldn't observe any more speciation." i wouldn't say we stoped look at the dogs recently minatures of everything chiwawas(how ever you spell it) besides new plants always found germs and viruses are always changing to meet the defenses we put up micro-evolution is still part of the world

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TheTruth
Member (Idle past 4410 days)
Posts: 60
Joined: 02-11-2008


Message 29 of 29 (455892)
02-14-2008 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
01-07-2008 12:39 PM


the bible (thus the biblical flood) has only one specific case

Gen 6
17"Behold, (R)I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life, from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish.

18"But I will establish (S)My covenant with you; and (T)you shall enter the ark--you and your sons and your wife, and your sons' wives with you(total of 8).

19"(U)And of every living thing of all flesh, you shall bring two of every kind into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female(only 2 not 4).

20"(V)Of the birds after their kind, and of the animals after their kind, of every creeping thing of the ground after its kind, two of every kind will come to you to keep them alive.

21"As for you, take for yourself some of all (W)food which is edible, and gather it to yourself; and it shall be for food for you and for them."((They had no shortage of food and didn't eat themsleves yet)

22(X)Thus Noah did; according to all that God had commanded him, so he did.


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