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Author Topic:   Why, if god limited man's life to 120 years, did people live longer?
ochaye
Member (Idle past 3404 days)
Posts: 307
Joined: 03-08-2009


Message 181 of 230 (513173)
06-25-2009 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by Hyroglyphx
06-25-2009 6:43 PM


Re: Cain's been a naughty boy
Does anyone read poetry in America?
This message is a reply to:
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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5663
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


Message 182 of 230 (513174)
06-25-2009 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by ochaye
06-25-2009 7:33 PM


Re: Cain's been a naughty boy
Does anyone read poetry in America?

Are you suggesting that the story of Cain and Abel is just symbolic imagery? Because if so, don't tell me, tell the people who do believe the inerrancy of every single word in the bible.


"The problem with Socialism is you eventually run out of other people's money." --Margaret Thatcher--
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ochaye
Member (Idle past 3404 days)
Posts: 307
Joined: 03-08-2009


Message 183 of 230 (513528)
06-29-2009 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by Hyroglyphx
06-25-2009 7:54 PM


Re: Cain's been a naughty boy
Inerrancy has nothing whatever to do with literalism, as any humble poetry lover will aver.

So will some American kindly answer the question? Does anyone read poetry in America? Do many people read anything in America?


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Perdition
Member (Idle past 1403 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 184 of 230 (513536)
06-29-2009 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by ochaye
06-29-2009 2:46 PM


Re: Cain's been a naughty boy
I read poetry, in fact I write it. In fact, I read quite a lot. I have so many books, my girlfriend is telling me I need to get rid of some. After I come to, I try to convince myself I never heard her say that, and go about my life.

What does that have to do with Cain's wife? Either she was an unmentioned sister, she was from a tribe that wasn't created by God, or God made more people than just Adam and Eve. What are the other possibilities from the story as written?


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Replies to this message:
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Brian
Member (Idle past 3124 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 185 of 230 (513584)
06-30-2009 6:13 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by Perdition
06-29-2009 4:43 PM


Re: Cain's been a naughty boy
Either she was an unmentioned sister, she was from a tribe that wasn't created by God, or God made more people than just Adam and Eve. What are the other possibilities from the story as written?

An unmentioned niece?


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 Message 184 by Perdition, posted 06-29-2009 4:43 PM Perdition has responded

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ochaye
Member (Idle past 3404 days)
Posts: 307
Joined: 03-08-2009


Message 186 of 230 (513618)
06-30-2009 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by Perdition
06-29-2009 4:43 PM


Re: Cain's been a naughty boy
'I read poetry'

Who is your favorite poet?


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Replies to this message:
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greentwiga
Member (Idle past 1592 days)
Posts: 213
From: Santa
Joined: 06-05-2009


Message 187 of 230 (513631)
06-30-2009 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by Brian
06-30-2009 6:13 AM


Re: Cain's been a naughty boy
I am exploring the option that God created Adam (both male and female) in Gen 1:27. Some unknown time later He set aside Adam (a man) in the same way he chose Noah or Abraham. (Compare God breathing life into adam to His breathing life into a new Christian.) Since, in this interpretation, there were generations between Gen 1:27 and Gen 2:7, Cain married one of the other female descendants of the Gen 1:27 people. Just another possibility.
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Perdition
Member (Idle past 1403 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 188 of 230 (513636)
06-30-2009 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by Brian
06-30-2009 6:13 AM


Re: Cain's been a naughty boy
An unmentioned niece?

That just pushes it back again. Either there was direct incest, mother-son, father-daughter, or brother-sister, or there were other people out in the world.


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Perdition
Member (Idle past 1403 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 189 of 230 (513637)
06-30-2009 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by ochaye
06-30-2009 10:56 AM


Re: Cain's been a naughty boy
I don't often go and buy a book of poetry based on the author. I'll find poems and read them, usually by amateurs or unknown people. I like to go to deviant art and read the poems on there, I even post occasionally. I have also gone to poetry.com and read some of the stuff there, but for some reason I prefer deviant art. If I get tired of poetry, I can look at photography, prose, or digital art.

If someone finds a particularly powerful or moving poem, and they recommend it to me, I'll check it out, but since the internet is so good at pulling a single poem up for you, I'd have to really love the poem to seek out more by that author.


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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6271
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 190 of 230 (513648)
06-30-2009 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by greentwiga
06-30-2009 1:08 PM


Re: Cain's been a naughty boy
Like Granny Magda's signature says:

"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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greentwiga
Member (Idle past 1592 days)
Posts: 213
From: Santa
Joined: 06-05-2009


Message 191 of 230 (513658)
06-30-2009 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Theodoric
06-30-2009 3:59 PM


Re: Cain's been a naughty boy
A. I said that this was another possibility other than the ones mentioned. Does it say that without torturing the scriptures? I don't know. One should consider all options.

B. If people in the past have done a lousy job of interpreting scripture A or B, why should I have to stick with their conclusion. Like when cold fusion or the heliocentric solar system theories were proposed, people debated the ideas and tested them. I am proposing ideas but only if the idea best fits scripture (and science) without torturing either should it be accepted. Just as in science, healthy debate is good.


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ochaye
Member (Idle past 3404 days)
Posts: 307
Joined: 03-08-2009


Message 192 of 230 (513660)
06-30-2009 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by Perdition
06-30-2009 1:44 PM


Re: Cain's been a naughty boy
'unknown people'

What a surprise.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by Perdition, posted 06-30-2009 1:44 PM Perdition has responded

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Perdition
Member (Idle past 1403 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 193 of 230 (513749)
07-01-2009 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by ochaye
06-30-2009 6:22 PM


Re: Cain's been a naughty boy
Wow, and who do you read, Mr. Poetry snob? And how does this refer back to the question at hand?
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greentwiga
Member (Idle past 1592 days)
Posts: 213
From: Santa
Joined: 06-05-2009


Message 194 of 230 (513889)
07-02-2009 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 192 by ochaye
06-30-2009 6:22 PM


Re: Cain's been a naughty boy
Look at Gen 1:27 How many people were created according to the verse. It could have been 2 or 2,000. Only by associating that verse with Gen 2 do people conclude only 2 people were created. If they are two completely separate events, separated by possibly thousands of years, Cain would have had a pool of women to choose from. I am not insisting that this is the right interpretation, just pointing out possible interpretations.
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Brian
Member (Idle past 3124 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 195 of 230 (513892)
07-02-2009 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by greentwiga
07-02-2009 10:57 AM


Gen. 2.5
Hi Twiga,

I'm not sure we can harmonise these two creation myths, if you are saying there existed a pool of people that Adam was chosen out of and placed in the garden then it may contradict Genesis 2:5

and no shrub of the field had yet appeared on the earth and no plant of the field had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no man to work the ground

This does suggest that Adam was the first man created.

But, I don't think we can harmonise the two different accounts of creation given in Genesis.

Remember that these ancient philosophers were not writing for a critical audience, and were only inventing a story to explain the unknown.

Genesis 2:5 claims that there were no shrubs or plants had yet appeared on the Earth yet in Genesis 1:11-13 we have:

Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morningthe third day.

So there's lots of plant life in Genesis 1, yet none in Genesis 2, and in Genesis 2 it suggests that Adam was created before plants, so this doesn't jive at all with Genesis 1.

I'm afraid that on this occasion perhaps we need to accept that these two accounts are incompatible.


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 Message 194 by greentwiga, posted 07-02-2009 10:57 AM greentwiga has responded

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