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Author Topic:   Reconstructing the Historical Jesus
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 10 of 560 (462694)
04-07-2008 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Grizz
04-06-2008 7:28 PM


Re: Greek
Hi Grizz,

Grizz writes:

Authorship is unknown in all cases. It is highly doubtfully that the disciples actually penned the gospels. Within Judea, there was a literacy rate of roughly ten percent. In Judea, the spoken word was the norm and writing was something reserved for the cultured and highly educated. All earliest Gospel manuscripts are written in koine Greek and most of them display a sophisticated command of the language and indicate someone with high educational attainment. Based on life expectancy and the fact that tradition indicates many disciples were martyred early on, it is highly unlikely a Judean would have had the time or available resources to learn the language of the gentile - Greek.

Since the Septuagint was the Bible of the day. It had been in existence for over 200 years. It was in Greek, why would the disciples not have knowledge of the Greek language?

God Bless


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Grizz, posted 04-06-2008 7:28 PM Grizz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Grizz, posted 04-07-2008 6:18 PM ICANT has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 17 of 560 (462717)
04-07-2008 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Grizz
04-07-2008 6:18 PM


Re: Greek
Hi Grizz,

If everybody was so uneducated how did Alexandra put together 72 Jewish scholars that knew both Hebrew and Greek to translate the Hebrew into the Septuagint?

Matthew was translated from Hebrew into Greek by James the Less.

Bartholomew translated Matthew from Hebrew or Greek into the language of India. He also preached in many other countries.

Thomas called Didymus, preached the Gospel in Parthia and India,

Simon Zelotes, preached the Gospel in Mauritania, Africa, and even in Britain.

They were either educated or had special abilities to speak other languages and understand them.

At the time the New Testament was being written, the language of the common people of the Holy Land was Aramaic, but Greek was the international language used throughout the Mediterranean world.

The writers of the New Testament quoted the Greek Old Testament.

The sign above the head of the suffering Christ was written in Hebrew, Greek and Latin, with Latin being the tongue used by the Roman prelates and judiciary.

Over the 275+ years the Hellenistic Jews used the Septuagint, it spread amongst the Jews of the dispersion. By the time of our Lord's birth it was the common form in which the Old Testament Scriptures had become diffused.

God Bless


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Grizz, posted 04-07-2008 6:18 PM Grizz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Grizz, posted 04-07-2008 10:05 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 22 by ramoss, posted 04-09-2008 4:22 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 21 of 560 (462787)
04-09-2008 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Grizz
04-07-2008 10:05 PM


Re: Greek
Hi Grizz,

Grizz writes:

Again, the Jews residing in Judea proper were traditional Jews who resisted integration and Hellinization. They were not part of the Diaspora, nor did they think highly of Hellenized Jews.

The traditional Jew living in Judea also did not accept Jesus as the Messiah.

The close followers of Jesus did accept Him as the Messiah. They were also Jews. Jesus had 120 members of His Church at His death.

The New Testament was written by 8 men.
Paul was responsible for 14 of the 27 books.
Matthew a tax collector for 1 book.
Luke a physician for 2 books.
Mark 1 book as he recorded the things taught him by Peter.
John, son of Zebedee 5 books.
The Apostle Simon, called Peter 2 books.
James brother of Jesus and Jude Thomas 1 book.
Jude Thomas, brother of Jesus and James 1 book.

Grizz writes:

Education for most citizens of antiquity consisted of acquiring the necessary skills to partake in a trade. For the most part, students were apprentices. Unlike the modern era, reading and writing were not essential skills required to function in society. Literacy would only be acquired by aristocrats or those destined for a scholarly trade such as medicine, theology, or philosophy. As already stated, Josephus and Paul are prime examples.

You say Paul would have the necessary skills to author.
Luke as a physician in medicine would qualify.
Matthew as a tax collector who had to keep records would qualify.
Jesus 2 younger brothers would qualify as they were to be theologians.

John's mother and Jesus Mother was sisters and since Jesus was to be King that would have put John in the aristocrat class.

That would leave Peter, and Mark as possibly unqualified by your standards.

Grizz writes:

The common 'blue-collar' citizen of Judea would have no practical reason to speak fluent Greek.

Peter, James, John and Zebedee were all partners in a fishing company. That would put them in the 'white-collar' citizen class. Being in business they needed to be able to communicate with all the people not just the Jews.

That leaves us with Mark a disciple of Peter that wrote the teachings he received from Peter as possibly being unqualified.

Grizz writes:

I am not sure which manuscript you are referring to. All of the early Gospel manuscripts are written in koine Greek. Regardless, it is probable that James was probably dead by the time Matthew was composed.

The James I refer to is the younger brother of Jesus who died at the age of 94.

Matthew being first written in Hebrew is questioned.

But Matthew was written to the common traditional Jew of the day and it stands to reason it would have been in Hebrew as that is what they would understand.

The book of Matthew was written before 70 AD. If it had been written after 70 AD the destruction of the Temple would have been recorded as history and not as prophecy.

Grizz writes:

If such recorded history does exist, I will be glad to discuss.

What would you consider recorded history?

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Grizz, posted 04-07-2008 10:05 PM Grizz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by ramoss, posted 04-09-2008 4:26 PM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 24 by Chiroptera, posted 04-09-2008 4:57 PM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 26 by Grizz, posted 04-09-2008 7:22 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
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