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Author Topic:   The Inerrancy of the Bible
Gilgamesh
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 301 (176384)
01-12-2005 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by 36Christians
01-10-2005 10:23 AM


Some old chestnuts
When did Ahaziah son of Jehoram begin his reign in Judah?
The 11th year (2Kings 9:29)
The 12th year (2Kings 8:25)
How old was Jehoiachin when he began to reign?
8 (2Chronicles 36:9)
18 (2Kings 24:8)
How long did Jotham reign in Jerusalem?
16 years (2Kings15:33)
At least 20 years (2Kings 15:30)
How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign?
22 (2Kings 8:26)
42 (2Chronicles 22:2)
How much gold was brought to Solomon from Ophir?
420 talents (1Kings 9:28)
450 talents (2Chronicles 8:18)
How many stalls did Solomon have for his horses?
4,000 (2Chronicles 9:25)
40,000 (1Kings 4:26)
How long did God tell David he was to suffer famine?
3 years (1Chronicles 21:11-12)
7 years (2Samuel 24:13)
How many horsemen did David take with him from Hadadezer?
700 (2Samuel 8:4)
7,000 (1Chronicles 18:4)
According to Genesis, Noah was 500 years old when he begat Shem (5:32). Noah was 600 years old when the Floodwaters were on the earth (7:6). Therefore, Shem was at least 100 years old when the Floodwaters were on the earth (600-500=100). But Shem was 100 years old when he begat Arphaxad, two years after the Flood (11:10) This is a mistake, if Shem begat Arphaxad two years after the Flood, then he should have been at least 102 years old.

Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away.
- Philip K. Dick

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by 36Christians, posted 01-10-2005 10:23 AM 36Christians has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by johnfolton, posted 01-13-2005 12:21 AM Gilgamesh has replied
 Message 169 by 36Christians, posted 01-18-2005 1:00 PM Gilgamesh has not replied

Gilgamesh
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 301 (176782)
01-13-2005 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by johnfolton
01-13-2005 12:21 AM


Re:
Why do you guys bother with thes claims of inerrancy? It surely does nothing but damage your cause. Logically, you'd expect any ancient text to have errors, inconsistencies and mistranslations. By claiming supernatural errancy, you achieve another step towards disproving the existence of your claimed God when an error is actually found. I don't think any theist or atheist would think any less of your religion if you claimed that your particular Bible version is a good, albeit sometimes "mildly" flawed, means for conveying your religious message.
But because you claim errancy, you have to perform ridiculous and dishonest mental gymnastics like you have done in your email above.
How old was Noah when Shem was born? 500 or 502?
Tom wrote:
It appears to be a generalization of the age Noah was when he had his three sons. Ham is the youngest son, but Shem was born when Noah was 502 years old. kjv Genesis 11:10
And Genesis 5:32 says Shem was born when Noah was 500 years old. Generalisation, typo, falsity, inaccuracy, call it whatever but it is a literal error and inconsistency.
How many stalls did Solomon have for his horses? 4,000 or 40,000
He had 4,000 large stalls however each of these were divided into 10 stalls. This means he had both 4,000 stalls and 40,000 stalls.
And where the heck do you get that from?? You've just made that up, haven't you?
How long did Jotham reign in Jerusalem? 16 years or 20+ years?
Jotham reigned for 16 years and started his reign when he became 25 years old. When Jotham was 20 years old Remaliah reigned in Jotham's place (stead) for 5 years. 2 kings 15:30
Yes, 2 Kings 15:33 does say he reigned for 16 years, from the age of 25, but you have misunderstood 2 Kings 15:30:
"And Hoshea the son of Elah made a conspiracy against Pekah the son of Remaliah, and smote him, and slew him, and reigned in his stead, in the twentieth year of Jotham the son of Uzziah."
This verse does not tells us what you claim about Remaliah: it only refers to his son Pekah, who was killed by Hoshea. Hoshea reigned in Pekah's stead, (as King of Israel) in the twentieth year of Jotham's reign (as King of Judah). I can't find any evidence to support your claim that Remaliah ruled in Jotham's place.
The expression "in the twentieth year of Jotham the son of Uzziah" means in the twentieth year of Jotham's reign. Look how the expression "in the x year of y" is used throughout the rest of 2 Kings 15. If refers to year of reign, not age. When Kings refers to an age, it says "x was y years old".
There is a straight contradiction in 2 Kings 15 within three verses: 30 and 33.
When did Ahaziah begin his reign? 11th or 12th year?
Ahaziah was the King of Judah for 2 years and the King of Israel in Jorams place (stead) for 1 year.
I think you are confusing the Ahaziah King of Judah and the Ahaziah King of Israel. They are very much not the same person:
Timeline: Kings of Israel and Judah
Two different kings: Ahaziah, King of Israel
You even provide a definition of Ahaziah that depicts two different kings born of two different fathers:
"Ahaziah
'ăchazya^h / 'ăchazya^hu^
BDB Definition:
Ahaziah = Jehovah (Yahu) holds (possesses)
1) ruler of Israel, son of Ahab
2) ruler of Judah, son of Jehoram (Joram)
Part of Speech: noun proper masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H270 and H3050"
Ahaziah, king of Judah did not reign over Israel at all, and he only ruled over Judah for one year. (2 Kings and 2 Chronicles both have his reign at one year, not two). You have made incorrect statements of fact and failed to explain the Biblical inconsistency.
2 Kings 9:29 has Ahaziah commencing his reign as King of Judah in the 11th year of Joram's reign, 2 Kings 8:25 has Ahaziah commencing in Joram's 12th year. The inconsistency remains.
How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign? 22 or 42?
Ahaziah was 22 years when he began his reign of Judah, which he Ahaziah represented the 42nd year of the house of Ahab. The house of Ahab ended after these 42 years plus his two years of reigning as king of Judah.
Firstly, Ahaziah only reigned over Judah for 1 year before he was killed. Secondly, your trying, without justification to claim that 2 Chronicles refers to the age of the house of Ahab and not Ahaziah's age. Let's see what it actually says:
"Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem..."
Doesn't say anything about the house of Ahab now does it?? I'd like to see you back up your claim of 42 years of the house of Ahab, byt the way.
You then go on to confuse the buggery out of the kings of Israel and Judah.
Another inconsistency remains.
And what about these:
How old was Jehoiachin when he began to reign?
8 (2Chronicles 36:9)
18 (2Kings 24:8)
How much gold was brought to Solomon from Ophir?
420 talents (1Kings 9:28)
450 talents (2Chronicles 8:18)
How long did God tell David he was to suffer famine?
3 years (1Chronicles 21:11-12)
7 years (2Samuel 24:13)
How many horsemen did David take with him from Hadadezer?
700 (2Samuel 8:4)
7,000 (1Chronicles 18:4)
Here's 300 odd more: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html
This message has been edited by Gilgamesh, 01-14-2005 00:09 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by johnfolton, posted 01-13-2005 12:21 AM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by johnfolton, posted 01-14-2005 12:43 AM Gilgamesh has replied

Gilgamesh
Inactive Member


Message 68 of 301 (176856)
01-14-2005 1:12 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by johnfolton
01-14-2005 12:43 AM


Re:
Thanks for your prompt response Tom, but it was poor:
Gilgamesh, You can calculate the age of Shem, because of the bible only generalized time Noah had his children. Ham was the youngest, thus Shem if he had children 2 years after the flood was born when Noah was 502 years.
Gee you love twisting things.
The Bible claims 2 ages when Noah begat Shem: 500 and 502. They can't both be right. End of story.
I read that if each stall was subdivided into 10 stalls then Solomon had 4,000 and 40,000 stalls.
You didn't read that in the Bible. This is another Bible typo.
I read that Jerry Falwell thought that some errors like 42 years might be the result of a scribe error. It does make it easier to understand, no need to grope for straws.
It is horrifying to agree with Jerry, but he is right. It's another Biblical typo.
I see no reason to try to cipher that the 42 years refers to the age of Ahaziah mother(it could be a scribal error).
Yup, it is another one.
That'll do. the KJV Bible is ERRANT and INACCURATE. Well done for attempting to defend 36Christian's thread.
NEXT!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by johnfolton, posted 01-14-2005 12:43 AM johnfolton has not replied

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