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Author Topic:   Where Science And The Bible Meet
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6916
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


Message 77 of 208 (442559)
12-21-2007 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by imageinvisible
12-21-2007 4:18 PM


Re: Bible predicts blockage.
How does a star colapse in upon itself?.... The text doesn't say where they will fall, only that they will, perhaps they will fall towards the center.... Furthermore everything in space is in a constant state of freefall....Our planet is constantly falling around our sun, our moon is constanly falling around our planet....

Well, I'm not an expert in classical Greek, but I doubt that the ancient Greek word used for fall in the old Gospel texts had this sense.

Edited by Chiroptera, : bet -> doubt


It has become fashionable on the left and in Western Europe to compare the Bush administration to the Nazis. The comparison is not without some superficial merit. In both cases the government is run by a small gang of snickering, stupid thugs whose vision of paradise is full of explosions and beautifully designed prisons. -- Matt Taibbi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by imageinvisible, posted 12-21-2007 4:18 PM imageinvisible has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by imageinvisible, posted 12-21-2007 5:22 PM Chiroptera has responded

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6916
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


Message 82 of 208 (442589)
12-21-2007 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by imageinvisible
12-21-2007 5:22 PM


Re: Bible predicts blockage.
Our planet is constantly falling around our sun, our moon is constanly falling around our planet....

Well, I'm not an expert in classical Greek, but I doubt that the ancient Greek word used for fall in the old Gospel texts had this sense.

So certain are you?

Yes, I'm fairly certain that this sense of the word fall didn't occur until Galileo's work in the 16th century CE.


It has become fashionable on the left and in Western Europe to compare the Bush administration to the Nazis. The comparison is not without some superficial merit. In both cases the government is run by a small gang of snickering, stupid thugs whose vision of paradise is full of explosions and beautifully designed prisons. -- Matt Taibbi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by imageinvisible, posted 12-21-2007 5:22 PM imageinvisible has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by imageinvisible, posted 12-21-2007 6:15 PM Chiroptera has responded

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6916
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


Message 84 of 208 (442603)
12-21-2007 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by imageinvisible
12-21-2007 6:15 PM


Re: Bible predicts readers with no comprehension.
So, there is absolutely no way, in your mind, that the Creator of the universe, and all the laws which govern it, (who existed long before the universe was ever created) could possibly know this....

No, I'm just pointing out that the word used did not have the meaning that you are claiming that it did.

-

How do you know what sense of the word fall the Creator of the universe was or was not using?

Well, assuming for the sake of argument that there is a creator and that this creator actually wrote those words, then I would also assume that the words weren't meant for physicists who lived after the 16th century. I would assume that the words were meant for a much larger audience who have had a definite idea of what fall means.

I mean, honestly, do you think that this so-called creator is in the habit of writing in an obscure way that the majority of people in history would not have understood? Do you really think that this creator intended that no one would understand its writings until you finally came along? That's the family sized box of hubris[/i], it seems to me.


It has become fashionable on the left and in Western Europe to compare the Bush administration to the Nazis. The comparison is not without some superficial merit. In both cases the government is run by a small gang of snickering, stupid thugs whose vision of paradise is full of explosions and beautifully designed prisons. -- Matt Taibbi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by imageinvisible, posted 12-21-2007 6:15 PM imageinvisible has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by imageinvisible, posted 12-22-2007 9:09 PM Chiroptera has responded

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6916
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


Message 88 of 208 (442981)
12-23-2007 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by imageinvisible
12-22-2007 9:09 PM


Let's resolve this "collapsing star" nonsense first.
I give you five uses of the word Earth, tell me if can get the sense in which the author is using the word.

I have no idea what this has to do with stars collapsing. Look, the audience for which the "falling stars" passage was written, 1st century Christians and perhaps Christians thereafter, would have interpreted the word "fall" in one way -- to mean something that was in the air or in the heavens rushing downward and hitting the ground (our ground, the earth) at a high speed. This is how they would have interpreted it, and this is the way they have always interpreted it...until you came along talking about collapsing stars.

Now if God "wrote" a passage about collapsing stars knowing full well that people would think that he was writing about things falling to the ground, then he was being deliberately misleading. That is pretty much the definition of a lie -- to deliberately say something (or omit saying something) so that people will be misled into an incorrect belief.

-

How many people here bought Christmas gifts online and had them delivered directly to their recipiants?

Now you're changing the subject? I don't blame you, seeing how embarrassing the "collapsing star" nonsense must be.


"The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but the one who causes the darkness."
Clearly, he had his own strange way of judging things. I suspect that he acquired it from the Gospels. -- Victor Hugo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by imageinvisible, posted 12-22-2007 9:09 PM imageinvisible has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by imageinvisible, posted 12-23-2007 6:55 PM Chiroptera has responded

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6916
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


Message 90 of 208 (443014)
12-23-2007 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by imageinvisible
12-23-2007 2:33 AM


Re: Qur'an and Science
Does the qur'an offer eternal security? How about a Fatherly love?

Do the answers to those questions have any bearing on whether or not the Qur'an is the true message from God?


"The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but the one who causes the darkness."
Clearly, he had his own strange way of judging things. I suspect that he acquired it from the Gospels. -- Victor Hugo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by imageinvisible, posted 12-23-2007 2:33 AM imageinvisible has not yet responded

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6916
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


Message 100 of 208 (443176)
12-23-2007 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by imageinvisible
12-23-2007 6:55 PM


Re: Let's resolve this "collapsing star" nonsense first.
Appearently I confused you with the collapsing stars question, I was being sarcastic in response to this question.

Ah. Thanks for clearing up the confusion.

-

Is purely assumption. You are assuming that the passage was written for 1st cetury christians because that's who Jesus is speaking to; however, the passage is a prophacy concerning the future.

Whoa! Now I'm confused again. First, you say that you were only being sarcastic when you mentioned collapsing stars. Now you're claiming that it's a serious possibility after all? Make up your mind, dude!

-

He also could have ment asteroids, meteors, comets....

Well, I think he was referring to the phenomenon of "shooting stars" -- you know, seeing what appears to be stars falling from the sky. Why make this complicated?

-

There are even a few verses that speak of the whole of creation (the universe) being roled up 'like' a scroll.

Well, Revelation 6:14 talks about the sky, not the entire universe. It was the belief at the time that the sky was made of a solid material, and Isaiah 40:22 indicates a tent or cloth-like material at that. It sounds to me like a description of the dome of the sky being "rolled up" and packed away. Why are you making this complicated?


"The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but the one who causes the darkness."
Clearly, he had his own strange way of judging things. I suspect that he acquired it from the Gospels. -- Victor Hugo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by imageinvisible, posted 12-23-2007 6:55 PM imageinvisible has not yet responded

  
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