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Author Topic:   Where Science And The Bible Meet
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 2085 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 26 of 208 (396889)
04-23-2007 7:37 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by ArchArchitect
04-18-2007 7:47 PM


What Was Proven?
quote:
There are many places in the Bible which have been scientifically been proven to be accurate. For example, read Matthew 24:29. That scene can also be found in Mark and Luke. If you know anything about science, then you'd know why it is scientifical. Look at how once the Sun gets darkened, the moon also loses brightness as a result.
What in Matthew 24:29 was proven by science to be accurate?

That the sun can be darkened?
That the moon can be darkened?
That stars can fall from the sky?
That heavenly bodies can be shaken?

The accuracy value of Matthew 24:29 is not whether each separate action can be associated with a recognized natural action, but whether all these natrual events have or can happen together as described.

quote:
My point? Keep in mind that 2,000 years ago, people thought that the Sun was 1 meter in diameter. How can the people be able to tell such scientific facts and have them be proven right later after much debate?
What evidence do you have that shows what first century people knew about the size of the sun?

There is a difference between creative writing and scientific writing.


"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by ArchArchitect, posted 04-18-2007 7:47 PM ArchArchitect has not yet responded

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 2085 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 46 of 208 (397239)
04-25-2007 5:58 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by ArchArchitect
04-24-2007 2:59 AM


Make Your Case
quote:
I am showing that the Bible does have some points that can be scientifically backed up.
Unfortunately you haven't shown anything yet. For this discussion to move forward, you need to provide the evidence that supports your contention.

What in Matthew 24:29 was proven by science to be accurate?

That the sun can be darkened?
That the moon can be darkened?
That stars can fall from the sky?
That heavenly bodies can be shaken?

The accuracy value of Matthew 24:29 is not whether each separate action can be associated with a recognized natural action, but whether all these natrual events have or can happen together as described.

As I said in Message 26: There is a difference between creative writing and scientific writing.

The OT authors routinely used cosmic upheaval language when describing God's judgment on man.

Isaiah 13:10 (Judgment against Babylon)

    An oracle concerning Babylon that Isaiah son of Amoz saw:... (Isaiah 13:1)
Isaiah 34:4 (Judgment against all Nations)
    The Lord is angry with all nations; his wrath is upon all their armies... (Isaiah 34:2)
Ezekiel 32:7
Joel 2:10, 2:31, 3:15
Haggai 2:6 & 21

The goal of extreme imagery such as the above verses is to generate fear. I say that because to the best of my knowledge the cosmic upheaval described in the above verses did not happen as described.

The creative rendition of the natural world isn't meant to match up with the scientific description of the natural world. One evokes emotion and the other provides facts.


"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by ArchArchitect, posted 04-24-2007 2:59 AM ArchArchitect has not yet responded

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 2085 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 57 of 208 (397580)
04-26-2007 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by ArchArchitect
04-26-2007 4:03 PM


Creative Writing
I know you're getting many responses and have probably missed mine, but could you read Message 46 if you haven't and respond accordingly.

Thanks


"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by ArchArchitect, posted 04-26-2007 4:03 PM ArchArchitect has not yet responded

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 2085 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 110 of 208 (444082)
12-28-2007 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by IamJoseph
12-28-2007 8:25 AM


Code of Hammurabi
quote:
Having said this, the Hamurabi documents have recently been established as Post-OT!
You've said this once before, but I can't find any info on a current discovery concerning the Code of Hammurabi and when it was written.

Is the year different than what is in Wiki?

The Code of Hammurabi (also known as Codex Hammurabi) is one of the earliest and best preserved law codes from ancient Babylon, created ca. 1760 BC (middle chronology). It was enacted by the sixth Babylonian king, Hammurabi.[1] Earlier collections of laws include the codex of Ur-Nammu, king of Ur (ca. 2050 BC), the Codex of Eshnunna (ca. 1930 BC) and the codex of Lipit-Ishtar of Isin (ca. 1870 BC).

Can you provide more information concerning this recent discovery?

The Seven Laws of Noah are inferred from Chapter 9 of Genesis.

According to the Documentary Hypothesis, Chapter 9 of Genesis, as well as the 10 Commandments, were written by the Priestly writer.

Preoccupied with the centrality of the priesthood, and with lists (especially genealogies), dates, numbers and laws. P describes a distant and unmerciful God, referred to as Elohim. P partly duplicates J and E, but alters details to stress the importance of the priesthood. P consists of about a fifth of Genesis, substantial portions of Exodus and Numbers, and almost all of Leviticus. P has a low level of literary style. Composed c 550-400 BC.

Did they find the Hammurabi documents to be younger than the priestly writings?


"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by IamJoseph, posted 12-28-2007 8:25 AM IamJoseph has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by IamJoseph, posted 12-29-2007 12:12 AM purpledawn has not yet responded

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 2085 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 140 of 208 (505968)
04-20-2009 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Peg
04-20-2009 7:08 AM


Re: Re-Science and Bible
quote:
so a person/animal will still live when all their blood is drained?
Have you had a health class?

Without oxygen one cannot live even with all the blood in tact. Life is also in oxygen.

Of course oxygen can't be exchanged, splattered, drunk, etc. Blood has more of a visual impact. The shock factor.

Don't confuse creative writing with reality.

Edited by purpledawn, : Added line


"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Peg, posted 04-20-2009 7:08 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by Peg, posted 04-21-2009 3:52 AM purpledawn has not yet responded

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 2085 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 151 of 208 (506360)
04-25-2009 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by Peg
04-25-2009 5:04 AM


Eye of the Needle
quote:
needles must have existed in some form...how else did they sew their clothes???
This is what happens when you don't read a sentence in the context of the argument. IOW, read what came before.

John 10:10 (the poster not the verse) is right that it is a creative way to say impossible.

Even through the difficulties of translation the point is still the same. It isn't supposed to be literal.

HEBREW NEW TESTAMENT STUDIES

What we have instead then, I believe, is a beautiful Hebrew hyperbole, as in the tree sticking out of one's eye whilst one is removing a speck in another's eye! Indeed, Jewish Talmudic literature uses a similar aphorism about an elephant passing through the eye of a needle as a figure of speech implying the unlikely or impossible:

So whether it is supposed to be camel or rope, the point is still the same. Even if people want to think it is a small gate, the point is still the same even if the gate didn't exist at the time Mark wrote.

I'm not sure why Larni brought this up in this topic since it's obviously a figure of speech.


"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Peg, posted 04-25-2009 5:04 AM Peg has not yet responded

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 2085 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 189 of 208 (507844)
05-08-2009 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by Peg
05-07-2009 6:47 AM


Re: Re-Science and Bible
quote:
Im sure not everyone died due to blood loss.
Honey, they didn't go to the store for steaks. They killed their meat.

How do you think they figured out the quickest way to kill for sacrifices? Stop being dense.

For rituals though blood has a better Wow factor. We can splatter, drink, boil, collect and bath in blood. Blood is readily available when a contract needs to be signed. In case you don't understand that, it means they cut themselves to provide the blood.

Remember blood can also be considered unclean. A woman's monthly flow, or blood from unclean animals.

Drowning and strangulation, not as dramatic. Can't do much with oxygen in a ritual.

We don't disagree that the ancients understood that loss of blood could kill, but we don't agree that the ancients understood what we understand about blood today. That doesn't negate what they did know. We build our knowledge on the knowledge of the past. First we know that blood loss can lead to death and later we understand why it can lead to death and how to stop it in some cases.

I suggest you put this blood issue to bed and come up with a new example of where science and the bible meet.


"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Peg, posted 05-07-2009 6:47 AM Peg has not yet responded

  
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