Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 81 (9005 total)
75 online now:
Hyroglyphx, nwr, PaulK (3 members, 72 visitors)
Newest Member: kanthesh
Post Volume: Total: 881,160 Year: 12,908/23,288 Month: 633/1,527 Week: 72/240 Day: 0/35 Hour: 0/2

Announcements: Topic abandonment warning (read and/or suffer the consequences)


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Where Science And The Bible Meet
imageinvisible
Member (Idle past 4546 days)
Posts: 132
From: Arlington, Texas, US
Joined: 12-03-2007


Message 73 of 208 (442410)
12-21-2007 3:50 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Larni
04-23-2007 6:26 AM


Re: Bible predicts blockage.
http://www.shamar.org/articles/camel-needle.php

I think you missed the point, not uncommon, so many do. As to Matthew 24:29 if you didn't notice those are red letter words. Jesus, the Creator of the universe, is speaking. This is the same man who walked on water, raised the dead, restored sight to blind men, cured the sick, calmed a storm with the words from His mouth, etc. etc. ect. He controls the universe. Why don't you read verse 30 while you are at it. That way when it happen's you can't say you where not warned. Perhaps you will even recognize it when you see it, and repent.

Young's literal translation, Matthew writes:

24:29`And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken;
24:30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in the heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth smite the breast, and they shall see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of the heaven, with power and much glory;

When you control the universe, you can tell it to do what ever you want it to do, and it has no choice but to obay.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Larni, posted 04-23-2007 6:26 AM Larni has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by sidelined, posted 12-21-2007 7:13 AM imageinvisible has responded
 Message 75 by Larni, posted 12-21-2007 1:46 PM imageinvisible has responded

  
imageinvisible
Member (Idle past 4546 days)
Posts: 132
From: Arlington, Texas, US
Joined: 12-03-2007


Message 76 of 208 (442548)
12-21-2007 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by sidelined
12-21-2007 7:13 AM


Re: Bible predicts blockage.
How does a star colapse in upon itself? If you could please explain. The text doesn't say where they will fall, only that they will, perhaps they will fall towards the center. But I'm not the Creator of the universe. Furthermore everything in space is in a constant state of freefall....Our planet is constantly falling around our sun, our moon is constanly falling around our planet....I don't know that I can answer your question with any degree of certainty, but I'm sure it will be an awsome spectical to watch! I can't wait. Get the popcorn ready.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by sidelined, posted 12-21-2007 7:13 AM sidelined has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Chiroptera, posted 12-21-2007 4:56 PM imageinvisible has responded
 Message 85 by sidelined, posted 12-21-2007 8:56 PM imageinvisible has not yet responded

  
imageinvisible
Member (Idle past 4546 days)
Posts: 132
From: Arlington, Texas, US
Joined: 12-03-2007


Message 78 of 208 (442564)
12-21-2007 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Larni
12-21-2007 1:46 PM


Re: Bible predicts blockage.
Again you missunderstand the essence of God Almighty, the being that called the universe (and all the laws of physics therein) into existance by the Words of His mouth. There is no 'magic' involved, He created the Laws of the universe, and the universe itself, He is not bound by them, nor is He under their restraining power. We are, and the universe is, but He is not. You have absolutly no concept of what omnipotence is. It means ALL POWERFUL. Absolutly nothing, not even the laws He established to govern the universe, will stand against Him, they will ALL bow down and serve His will. So because, accourding to you, if it was created supernaturaly to function within the physical laws of the universe, which where established by the same Creator, it must therefore be unscientific? How then, if the universe was created suppernaturaly, can anything be scientific? Which law was established first in the Big Bang cosmology, the law of gravity, or the 1st law of thermodynamics? And what power did nothing have to establish these laws? If nothing (the absolute lack of anything, void, zero, zilch, zip, nada) can, accourding to science, create a universe from nothing by nothing, how much more, or less, can an All Powerful, omnipotent force of supernatural power, God, do?

Young's literal translation Colossians writes:

1:15 [Jesus] Who is the Image of the Invisible God, First-born of all creation,

1:16 because in Him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through Him, and for Him, have been created,

1:17 and Himself is before all, and all things in Him have consisted.

1: Throne- Seat of power, soveriegnty over authorities and the law.
2: Lordship- Rank of dignaty, authority or power of a lord.
3: Principality- state office or authority, dominion, domain of jurisdiction
4: Authority- power to influence or command
5: consisted- existed


This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Larni, posted 12-21-2007 1:46 PM Larni has not yet responded

  
imageinvisible
Member (Idle past 4546 days)
Posts: 132
From: Arlington, Texas, US
Joined: 12-03-2007


Message 80 of 208 (442569)
12-21-2007 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Chiroptera
12-21-2007 4:56 PM


Re: Bible predicts blockage.
So certain are you? Hmm? What the Creator of the universe ment when these words He uttered.

Ambiguous- capable of being understood in two or more possible senses or ways.

Young's Literal translation, Genesis writes:

1:14 And God saith, `Let luminaries be in the expanse of the heavens, to make a separation between the day and the night, then they have been for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years,

1:15 and they have been for luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth:' and it is so.

1:16 And God maketh the two great luminaries, the great luminary for the rule of the day, and the small luminary -- and the stars -- for the rule of the night;

1:17 and God giveth them in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth,

1:18 and to rule over day and over night, and to make a separation between the light and the darkness; and God seeth that [it is] good;

1:19 and there is an evening, and there is a morning -- day fourth.

He says He created them in one day, I'm fairly certain He can destroy them in one day.

Edited by imageinvisible, : added text in qs box


This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Chiroptera, posted 12-21-2007 4:56 PM Chiroptera has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Chiroptera, posted 12-21-2007 5:57 PM imageinvisible has responded

  
imageinvisible
Member (Idle past 4546 days)
Posts: 132
From: Arlington, Texas, US
Joined: 12-03-2007


Message 83 of 208 (442593)
12-21-2007 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Chiroptera
12-21-2007 5:57 PM


Re: Bible predicts blockage.
So, there is absolutely no way, in your mind, that the Creator of the universe, and all the laws which govern it, (who existed long before the universe was ever created) could possibly know this; because Galileo (who took clues from the Bible) didn't come up with the idea untill 16 hundred years later? How do you know what sense of the word fall the Creator of the universe was or was not using?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Chiroptera, posted 12-21-2007 5:57 PM Chiroptera has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Chiroptera, posted 12-21-2007 7:13 PM imageinvisible has responded

  
imageinvisible
Member (Idle past 4546 days)
Posts: 132
From: Arlington, Texas, US
Joined: 12-03-2007


Message 86 of 208 (442871)
12-22-2007 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Chiroptera
12-21-2007 7:13 PM


Re: Bible predicts Satalite TV and internet shopping?
If you're so good at reading the sense of what the author of something is or is not tring to say even when He only says the word once. I give you five uses of the word Earth, tell me if can get the sense in which the author is using the word.

Young's literal translation, Revelation 11 writes:

2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth." 4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. 5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6 These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.
7 Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. 8 Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. 9 For three and a half days men from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. 10 The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.

11 But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. 12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.

How many people here bought Christmas gifts online and had them delivered directly to their recipiants?

Edited by imageinvisible, : some spelling

Edited by imageinvisible, : emphasis

Edited by imageinvisible, : more ^


This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Chiroptera, posted 12-21-2007 7:13 PM Chiroptera has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Chiroptera, posted 12-23-2007 10:42 AM imageinvisible has responded

  
imageinvisible
Member (Idle past 4546 days)
Posts: 132
From: Arlington, Texas, US
Joined: 12-03-2007


Message 87 of 208 (442915)
12-23-2007 2:33 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by wisdom
12-21-2007 5:19 PM


Re: Qur'an and Science
Does the qur'an offer eternal security? How about a Fatherly love?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by wisdom, posted 12-21-2007 5:19 PM wisdom has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by jar, posted 12-23-2007 12:59 PM imageinvisible has responded
 Message 90 by Chiroptera, posted 12-23-2007 1:03 PM imageinvisible has not yet responded

  
imageinvisible
Member (Idle past 4546 days)
Posts: 132
From: Arlington, Texas, US
Joined: 12-03-2007


Message 91 of 208 (443099)
12-23-2007 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Chiroptera
12-23-2007 10:42 AM


Re: Let's resolve this "collapsing star" nonsense first.
Once again you missunderstand. Read the passages again. notice the word heaven and that it is used in the singular 3 times and in the plural only once.

24:29`And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken;
24:30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in the heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth smite the breast, and they shall see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of the heaven, with power and much glory;

Appearently I confused you with the collapsing stars question, I was being sarcastic in response to this question.

sidelined writes:

So exactly how do stars "fall" from heaven if you could please explain?

I appologize for the missunderstanding, appearantly sarcasm doesn't translate well in the written word. I then used the Galileon definition of the word fall to illustrate that all objects in space fall. I then hinted at a possiblity, toward a center of gravity. Your idea....

Chiroptera writes:

to mean something that was in the air or in the heavens rushing downward and hitting the ground (our ground, the earth)

Is purely assumption. You are assuming that the passage was written for 1st cetury christians because that's who Jesus is speaking to; however, the passage is a prophacy concerning the future. He could have been (and I believe He is) talking to you and me. He could have ment stars, He also could have ment asteroids, meteors, comets (there is a passage in Revelation that speaks of 200 lbs. hail stones raining down on the earth, amoung other things), He could have been talking about satilites. There are even endtime prophacies in the old and new testiment where the term 'star' is refering to angels and/or deamons. You only have one line to work with here. There are plenty of other places in the Bible that speak (propheticaly) of stars being cast down. There are even a few verses that speak of the whole of creation (the universe) being roled up 'like' a scroll. (Hmm, sounds like a quantum singularity to me, at the very least a gravitational center) You might want to check those out before you start drawing conclusions. And no I wasn't changing the subject, I was illustrating your error in think that you know everthing.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Chiroptera, posted 12-23-2007 10:42 AM Chiroptera has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by ringo, posted 12-23-2007 8:20 PM imageinvisible has responded
 Message 100 by Chiroptera, posted 12-23-2007 10:34 PM imageinvisible has not yet responded

  
imageinvisible
Member (Idle past 4546 days)
Posts: 132
From: Arlington, Texas, US
Joined: 12-03-2007


Message 92 of 208 (443101)
12-23-2007 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by jar
12-23-2007 12:59 PM


Re: Qur'an and Science
Jar writes:

Of course it does

Have you even READ the qur'an? It does NOT gauranty eternal security. You have to earn your way into allah's kngdom by killing infidels (like myself and the Jews). Neither does it offer a loving Father figure in allah. You might want to recheck your information on all those other religions as well because they don't offer eternal security either, they are all based on the idea that man can earn his way into 'heaven' and/or paradise.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by jar, posted 12-23-2007 12:59 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by jar, posted 12-23-2007 7:21 PM imageinvisible has responded
 Message 103 by IamJoseph, posted 12-28-2007 6:09 AM imageinvisible has not yet responded

  
imageinvisible
Member (Idle past 4546 days)
Posts: 132
From: Arlington, Texas, US
Joined: 12-03-2007


Message 95 of 208 (443141)
12-23-2007 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by jar
12-23-2007 7:21 PM


Re: Qur'an and Science
And yet you chose to ignore the one claim I posted concerning science and the Bible and argue the off topic post, interesting.

Jar writes:

I expect there will be far more Muslims, Atheists and Satanists in heaven than your brand of Christians. If you actually read the Bible

Apearently you have never read the Bible either, (or didn't understand what you read) even though you do elude to Mat. 25 (that's verse 33 btw). What you fail to realize is that those are red letter words, i.e. Jesus is speaking. Jesus also said something else in John 14:6 "I Am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father exept through Me." So that just blows your whole theory about muslims, atheists, and satanists (AS IF, none of which accept Jesus Christ as God, or even as the Son of God) being in heaven. Those who where formerly these and accepted Jesus Christ as the Son of the living God, and the Root of their salvation, sure. But not those who profess to be such.

Now do you have any comments on Message 86 or not?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by jar, posted 12-23-2007 7:21 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by jar, posted 12-23-2007 8:29 PM imageinvisible has responded
 Message 105 by IamJoseph, posted 12-28-2007 6:39 AM imageinvisible has responded

  
imageinvisible
Member (Idle past 4546 days)
Posts: 132
From: Arlington, Texas, US
Joined: 12-03-2007


Message 97 of 208 (443155)
12-23-2007 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by ringo
12-23-2007 8:20 PM


Thanks
Ringo writes:

Happy Birthday.

Aww, shucks for lil' O' me. Why thank you! :D

Ringo writes:

you not only look like an idiot, but an arrogant idiot too

You even gave me a present too! To be verbaly persecuted because of the Word of God and my belief in Him; that's the best birthday present I have ever received! (and no, this time I'm not being sarcatic, I'm actualy quite blessed and thankful) :D God bless you!

As to believeing that the Bible was written for me personaly, I wouldn't quite go that far. That it was written for the church, those who followed Jesus in His day, and those who follow Him now, and for any who truly seak to know God, this is what I believe. It was just as relavent then as it is now, but even more so now. For as it was in the days of Noah, for as it was in the days of sodom and gamorah, for as it was in the days of Moses, and for as it was in the days of Christ Jesus the Messiah, so it is know.

So do you have any relevant arguements to my posts or did you just come here to wish me happy birthday and bring me presents?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by ringo, posted 12-23-2007 8:20 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by ringo, posted 12-24-2007 1:33 AM imageinvisible has not yet responded

  
imageinvisible
Member (Idle past 4546 days)
Posts: 132
From: Arlington, Texas, US
Joined: 12-03-2007


Message 98 of 208 (443157)
12-23-2007 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by jar
12-23-2007 8:29 PM


Re: Revelation and science.
If everything in the book of revelation happened 1800 years ago, then why are there still things like, mountains and islands? Where is the Kingdom of God that you suppose descended from heaven and is said to rest in Jerusalem? Where's the marrage feast of the lamb? The thousand year reign? The new hevens and the new earth? And why is the sun still here? Like I said....if you read it, it didn't sink in.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by jar, posted 12-23-2007 8:29 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by jar, posted 12-23-2007 9:07 PM imageinvisible has not yet responded

  
imageinvisible
Member (Idle past 4546 days)
Posts: 132
From: Arlington, Texas, US
Joined: 12-03-2007


Message 113 of 208 (444139)
12-28-2007 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by IamJoseph
12-28-2007 6:39 AM


No one comes to the Father exept through Me
This probably isn't the thread in which to tackle your misconceptions, (if there is one please direct IamJoseph and myself to it) but your assertions illustrate how little you understand of the OT, the Christ, and Christianity. and their coralation to one another.

IamJoseph writes:

I AM THE LRD THERE IS NO OTHER

This means no one can speak on behalf of changing an OT law

Actually it means that the only One who can is the LORD Himself, but He is unchanging and so is His law. The Christ (He said so himself) did not come to remove the Law but to fulfill the Law, Gods way, the only way it can be fulfilled.

Romans 3 writes:

19 And we have known that as many things as the law saith, to those in the law it doth speak, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may come under judgment to God; 20 wherefore by works of law shall no flesh be declared righteous before Him, for through law is a knowledge of sin. 21 And now apart from law hath the righteousness of God been manifested, testified to by the law and the prophets, 22 and the righteousness of God [is] through the faith of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those believing, -- for there is no difference, 23 for all did sin, and are come short of the glory of God -- 24 being declared righteous freely by His grace through the redemption that [is] in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God did set forth a mercy seat, through the faith in his blood, for the shewing forth of His righteousness, because of the passing over of the bygone sins in the forbearance of God -- 26 for the shewing forth of His righteousness in the present time, for His being righteous, and declaring him righteous who [is] of the faith of Jesus. 27 Where then [is] the boasting? it was excluded; by what law? of works? no, but by a law of faith: 28 therefore do we reckon a man to be declared righteous by faith, apart from works of law. 29 The God of Jews only [is He], and not also of nations? 30 yes, also of nations; since one [is] God who shall declare righteous the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through the faith. 31 Law then do we make useless through the faith? let it not be! yea, we do establish law.

Jesus Himself said,

Jesus writes:

"Matthew 5:17 `Do not suppose that I came to throw down the law or the prophets -- I did not come to throw down, but to fulfill; 18 for, verily I say to you, till that the heaven and the earth may pass away, one iota or one tittle may not pass away from the law, till that all may come to pass. 19 `Whoever therefore may loose one of these commands -- the least -- and may teach men so, least he shall be called in the reign of the heavens, but whoever may do and may teach [them], he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens. Luke 16:16 the law and the prophets [are] till John; since then the reign of God is proclaimed good news, and every one doth press into it; 17 and it is easier to the heaven and the earth to pass away, than of the law one tittle to fall."

In your search of the OT did you miss all the times when The LORD said," Therefore MY own arm brought salvation for ME." "So He became their Savior." "The planting of the LORD that He may be glorified." "Behold the LORD's hand is not shortened that it cannot save;" "For the LORD has comforted His people, He has redeemed Jerusalem. The LORD has made bare His Holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of God....For the LORD will go before you." http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2053;&version=15;

John said of Him, "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world." He [Jesus] said of Himself,"Behold I Am the gate." "The Bread and the Light." Concerning the bread, "this is My body." concerning the wine, "this is My blood." [He is the bread and wine sacrifice] I say of Him, and the new and old testiment verify it, that He is the blood poured out on the mercy seat and is The High Priest, our intercesor, before the throne of God, in His Holy of Holies.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by IamJoseph, posted 12-28-2007 6:39 AM IamJoseph has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by jar, posted 12-28-2007 1:32 PM imageinvisible has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020