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Author Topic:   Noah's Ark volume calculation
Peg
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 15 of 347 (490069)
12-02-2008 5:00 AM


great topic
Gen6:14-16 writes:
Make for yourself an ark out of wood of a resinous tree. You will make compartments in the ark, and you must cover it inside and outside with tar. 15And this is how you will make it: three hundred cubits the length of the ark, fifty cubits its width, and thirty cubits its height. 16You will make a tso”har [roof; or, window] for the ark, and you will complete it to the extent of a cubit upward, and the entrance of the ark you will put in its side; you will make it with a lower [story], a second [story] and a third [story].
The ark (Heb., te·vah”; Gr., ki·bo·tos”) was a rectangular chestlike vessel
In size the ark was 300 cubits long, 50 cubits wide, and 30 cubits high. Conservatively calculating the cubit as 44.5 cm (17.5 in.) (some think the ancient cubit was nearer 56 or 61 cm), the ark measured 133.5 m by 22.3 m by 13.4 m (437 ft 6 in. 72 ft 11 in. 43 ft 9 in.), less than half the length of the ocean liner Queen Elizabeth 2.
This gave the ark approximately 40,000 cu m (1,400,000 cu ft) in gross volume. (think of the Titanic, and thats about the size of it)
Internally strengthened by adding two floors, the three decks thus provided gave a total of about 8,900 sq m (96,000 sq ft) of space.

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Peg
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 16 of 347 (490070)
12-02-2008 5:04 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by earlejones
12-01-2008 5:25 PM


Re: How many 'species' on the ark?
earljones writes:
I can't find any data on how kangaroos got from Mount Ararat all the way to Australia!
the same way the Papua New Guinea people immigrated to australia - walked
the findings of oceanographers indicate that at one time land ridges connected what are now isolated land areas. For example, oceanographic studies indicate that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge may have crossed that ocean above the surface. Possibly there were also other ridges, and animals could have migrated by means of these before such ridges sank below the surface of the ocean. Other oceanographic studies have turned up evidence that once there existed a huge South Pacific continent that took in Australia and many of the South Sea isles. If such was the case, then, of course, the animals had no difficulty in migrating to these lands

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Peg
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 17 of 347 (490075)
12-02-2008 6:09 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by kuresu
12-01-2008 8:32 AM


kuresu writes:
two of those behemoths probably would have sunk the ark. Which is why I think creationists tend to remove dinosaurs from the ark list.
as you knowe, Dinosaur bones are found in lower earth layers than are human bones, leading many to conclude that they belong to an earlier time period

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Peg
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 21 of 347 (490081)
12-02-2008 6:45 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by kuresu
12-02-2008 6:22 AM


i have no idea why anyone would try to include dinosaurs in the story of noah
there is no reason to do so, the bible does not mention dinosaurs because they were not existing when it was written
kuresu writes:
The flood model simply does not make sense with what we know about the geological and biological history of the earth.
im sure there is still a lot about the earths early history that we may never come to understand...everything we conclude about the earth as it is today is only based on our current knowledge. It will probably change in few decades and then it will change again a few decades after that. So for now, nothing is impossible.

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Peg
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 38 of 347 (490204)
12-03-2008 3:50 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Larni
12-02-2008 6:19 AM


Re: How many 'species' on the ark?
Hi Larni,
No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.mar-eco.no/learning-zone/backgrounders/geology/plate_tectonics
if the story of noah is true, then that explains why there is so much water on the earth... lets just say that before the flood, most of the water was not on earth, but as the bible says in the atmospher above the earth, then animals at that time would not have been restricted geographically by location
also, it was only a few thousand years ago that the Papua New Guinea people immigrated to the norhtern tip of australia...and they walked here! So we have recent evidence of a much higher sea floor then it is today
Mar-Eco writes:
"Two hundred million years ago the Atlantic Ocean was just a small bay between the continents of Africa, Europe, and the Americas. Now it is a huge ocean. The mid-Atlantic Ridge spreading centre that runs north-south beneath the Atlantic Ocean has been adding about 24km of new crust every million years, with the result that the Atlantic Ocean is now almost 5000km wide."

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Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by kuresu, posted 12-03-2008 4:45 AM Peg has replied
 Message 51 by Larni, posted 12-03-2008 7:10 AM Peg has replied

Peg
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 39 of 347 (490205)
12-03-2008 4:12 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by DevilsAdvocate
12-02-2008 12:09 PM


Re: great topic
DevilsAdvocate writes:
The class Mammalia (mammals) contains 1117 genera (4629 species) and Aves (birds) contain 2050 genera (9,648 species). This gives us a grand total of 3167 "types" of creeping, crawling, walking and flying terrestrial creatures.
this might be true today, but how do we know how many genre's were around 6 thousand years ago? Do we know with any certainty??
there is only 1 human species on earth, yet the variety is vast...there is black/white/red/bronze skins... there are asians/afro/european... the sizes range from tiny pygmies to small asians to med europeans to large islanders...
my understanding is that the animal 'Kinds' meant the animals who could breed together

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Peg
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 40 of 347 (490206)
12-03-2008 4:21 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by killinghurts
12-02-2008 9:42 PM


Gen6:18-21 writes:
18And I do establish my covenant with you; and you must go into the ark, you and your sons and your wife and your sons’ wives with you. 19And of every living creature of every sort of flesh, two of each, you will bring into the ark to preserve them alive with you. Male and female they will be. 20Of the flying creatures according to their kinds and of the domestic animals according to their kinds, of all moving animals of the ground according to their kinds, two of each will go in there to you to preserve them alive. 21And as for you, take for yourself every sort of food that is eaten; and you must gather it to yourself, and it must serve as food for you and for them.”
some have suggested that there could have been as few as 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles in the ark, they could have produced the variety of species known today.
The Encyclopedia Americana indicate that there are upwards of 1,300,000 species of animals. (1977, Vol. 1, pp. 859-873) However, over 60 percent of these are insects. Breaking these figures down further, of the 24,000 amphibians, reptiles, birds, and mammals, 10,000 are birds, 9,000 are reptiles and amphibians, many of which could have survived outside the ark, and only 5,000 are mammals, including whales and porpoises, which would have also remained outside the ark. Other researchers estimate that there are only about 290 species of land mammals larger than sheep and about 1,360 smaller than rats
if these estimates are anything to go by, then there would have been plenty of room on a ship the size of the titanic to house them.

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Peg
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 41 of 347 (490207)
12-03-2008 4:26 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by NosyNed
12-02-2008 11:10 PM


Re: God's Play
NosyNed writes:
since the move they've never managed to define kind in anything but a hand-waving fuzzy way because they got bringing chimps (etc.) and humans into one kind.
if Man and Chimp were of the same kind or species, then they should be able to breed
if they cant breed, then they cannot be the same species
this is what a 'kind' implies.... that it is of the same species and if its of the same species, it should be able to breed

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Peg
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 42 of 347 (490208)
12-03-2008 4:30 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by killinghurts
12-03-2008 2:09 AM


Re: Re-if possible
killinghurts writes:
Evolution (or change over time) does not occur in animals according to creationism - therefore they cannot progressively get bigger over the generations.
Is that a reasonable assumption?
not really
have you ever seen what happens to a domestic cat or pig when it starts breeding in the wild??? I've seen feral cats that were bigger then my medium sized dog... and we can see how wild pigs grow to huge sizes
so animals can definitely get bigger under certain conditions.

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Peg
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 47 of 347 (490216)
12-03-2008 4:59 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by kuresu
12-03-2008 4:45 AM


Re: How many 'species' on the ark?
There is no evidence of an overall higher sea floor, but rather, a lower sea level.
i was tried to write it like that lol
lower sea levels enabled the Papua new guinea people to walk to australia....just as some ocean researches suggest that ridges aided animal migration.

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Peg
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 48 of 347 (490217)
12-03-2008 5:02 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by kuresu
12-03-2008 4:51 AM


Re: Ark Size
in 7,000 odd years humans have managed to reproduce a vast variety of nationalities...why couldnt animals?
scientists have researched human genes extensively. By comparing human genetic patterns around the earth, they found clear evidence that all humans have a common ancestor, a source of the DNA of all people who have ever lived, including each of us. In 1988, Newsweek magazine presented those findings in a report entitled “The Search for Adam and Eve.” Those studies were based on a type of mitochondrial DNA, genetic material passed on only by the female. Reports in 1995 about research on male DNA point to the same conclusion”that “there was an ancestral ”Adam,’ whose genetic material on the [Y] chromosome is common to every man now on earth,”
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
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Peg
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 52 of 347 (490233)
12-03-2008 7:11 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by kuresu
12-03-2008 5:38 AM


Re: Ark Size
but through DNA analysis, the nationality can be identified...we know that it could be an asian person, or it could be an african, or it could be a Caucasian for example
so we are 1 species of great variety
would you say that zoo's contain most of the representative species of all land animals ?

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Peg
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 53 of 347 (490234)
12-03-2008 7:13 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by bluescat48
12-03-2008 6:19 AM


Re: Ark Size
thats debatable though

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Peg
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 88 of 347 (490382)
12-04-2008 5:29 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Larni
12-03-2008 7:10 AM


Re: How many 'species' on the ark?
today animals are restricted to their geographic locations, sure
but perhaps back in noahs day, with a much lower sea level and much more land and continents closer together, animals were free to roam anywhere on the earth
if the story of Noah is true, then obviously all the animals he collected could be found inhis geographic location
and back to the point of how the Papua New Guinea people walked to australia... that happened in the last 4-5 thousand years
so it in itself proves that sea levels must have been lower then they once were.

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Replies to this message:
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Peg
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 89 of 347 (490383)
12-04-2008 5:33 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by kuresu
12-03-2008 7:47 AM


Re: Ark Size
kuresu writes:
Actually, we are 1 species of little genetic diversity. Largely thanks to a bottleneck near-extinction event 70,000 years ago.
what event would that be?
and yes your right, i'll be more precise in my use of the term nationality... i did have in mind ethnicity, so ill use this term in future

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