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Author Topic:   Noah's Ark volume calculation
NosyNed
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Posts: 9006
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 33 of 347 (490194)
12-02-2008 11:10 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by ICANT
12-02-2008 10:58 PM


God's Play
What folks that don't believe in God don't understand about those of us who believe Genesis 1:1 is that if God can do that then everything else is childs play.
We understand perfectly. What you are forgetting is that the "creation scientists" are saying that all of this (along with many other things) are scientifically possible without invoking miracles.
That is why they moved the definition of "kind" from species (as it is clearly meant to be in the bible) to higher taxa (and variable levels) a few decades ago. They had to do that to make it possible to fit them all on the ark. (as well as handle observed speciation -facts caught up with them.) (in fact, since the move they've never managed to define kind in anything but a hand-waving fuzzy way because they got bringing chimps (etc.) and humans into one kind.
You just wiped out all of answersingenesis, the creation research institute and a few 1,000 web sites reasons for existing. You agree with the rationalists that the ark is impossible within the universe as we understand it.
Edited by NosyNed, : added a line

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by ICANT, posted 12-02-2008 10:58 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Peg, posted 12-03-2008 4:26 AM NosyNed has replied
 Message 62 by ICANT, posted 12-03-2008 2:54 PM NosyNed has replied

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9006
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 56 of 347 (490250)
12-03-2008 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Peg
12-03-2008 4:26 AM


Kind
The point is Peg that many (most?) of the "creation science" organizations no longer define "kind" as species.
If you have "kind" as species you have waaaaaaaaaaay too many animals on the ark for it to work without a miracle or three.

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 Message 41 by Peg, posted 12-03-2008 4:26 AM Peg has replied

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9006
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 63 of 347 (490290)
12-03-2008 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by ICANT
12-03-2008 2:54 PM


Re: God's Play
I agree that it is impossible according to the natural man's understanding and knowledge.
Fine, then we have no argument with each other. You are entitled to believe whatever you want as long as it doesn't impinge on anyone else.
Please go tell that to the creation "scientists" and the IDists then who are trying to claim that they are actually doing science and want to bugger about with science classes.
If God can speak this universe into existence and then create all the animals in it, why would He have a problem with repopulating the earth after a flood?
Agreed. Given you assumptions then anything is possible. This is your religion and I agree that you are entitled to it. However, Goddidit is not an explanation for anything and has nothing at all to do with a rational understanding of the physical universe we live in.
So there is no science at all in your view of reality.
However, worse than that (from a believers perspective) there is very bad theology in your claim. You are claiming that God not only used a variety of miracles to make the flood possible as described in the Bible but that he arranged these miracles in a careful fashion to make it appear as if the flood did not happen and could not happen as described.
He then, crafty fellow that he is, also left out the details of this slight-of-hand (some would even call it deception) from the Book.

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9006
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 104 of 347 (490437)
12-04-2008 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Huntard
12-04-2008 1:32 PM


His link
Did you read the 2nd sentence of that link?

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9006
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 106 of 347 (490442)
12-04-2008 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Huntard
12-04-2008 2:42 PM


Linked article goes wrong in 2 sentences
You read? ->
quote:
Within hours, mammoths, which could not have lived in today’s Arctic climates or at Arctic latitudes, were buried alive and quickly frozen as this muddy hail fell back to earth in a gigantic hail storm.
It is so obviously silly that I didn't bother to read further.

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9006
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 135 of 347 (490821)
12-08-2008 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by killinghurts
12-08-2008 7:59 PM


Here is an image of sheep being trucked:
http://www.agmates.com/...ontent/uploads/2008/04/sheep-2.jpg
It is one thing to transport animals for a day or two and another to keep them alive for a year. This site gives sq. footage for raising sheep (for example).
http://www.sheep101.info/201/housing.html
quote:
Recommended Housing Space (square feet per animal)
................' Confinement confinement
................' solid floors) (slotted floors)
Bred Ewe -------- 12-16 ------ 8-10 sq ft.
Ewe with lambs -- 16-20 -- - 10-12
Ram -------------- 20-30 ----- 14-20
Barns should not be heated or closed up. Good ventilation is an absolute necessity. Respiratory disease (e.g. pneumonia and bronchitis) can result from poor ventilation. If ammonia can be smelled in the barn, ventilation is inadequate. Ventilation can be accomplished by either natural or mechanical means, but usually natural ventilated cold housing is satisfactory for sheep. It is better to over-ventilate than under-ventilate. The only requirement is that sheep have a dry, draft-free pen for lambing.
if a sheep is given 3 feet of height it would need around 30 to 40 cubic feet -- not 11. The first number becomes unreasonable at that size as does the 2nd too I'd say.
The rest become more shaking when other storage is included.
They are calculating whatever works to give the desired answer not from what is actually needed.

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9006
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 142 of 347 (490845)
12-09-2008 2:49 AM
Reply to: Message 139 by bluescat48
12-09-2008 12:07 AM


fail!
1.4 cubed is less than 3. Back to remedial arithmetic for you.
11.125 is a bit less than the cube of 2.24. Which I can see fitting a sheep into if you change it a bit from a cube and crowd the sheep.
One question to be answered is what is the average size of the animals considered. My guess is that it is closer to a bunny rabbit than a sheep even if you include elephants (and dinosaurs).
If you take "kind" = species you get a lot of animals but there are a hell of a lot of small ones.

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 Message 139 by bluescat48, posted 12-09-2008 12:07 AM bluescat48 has replied

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9006
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 143 of 347 (490846)
12-09-2008 2:51 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by killinghurts
12-08-2008 7:59 PM


Percentage
11.25 cubic feeet is given as requiring 29% of the ark capacity.
100/29 * 11.25 = 38.8 so that seems to be your problem.

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