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Author Topic:   Noah's Ark volume calculation
Percy
Member
Posts: 22608
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 316 of 347 (497821)
02-06-2009 8:00 AM
Reply to: Message 313 by prophet
02-05-2009 6:24 PM


Re: Miracle or Bust
prophet writes:
Percy writes:
As gets pointed out in every thread where this comes up, including this one, the fundamental problem always turns out to be that there's no definition of "kind", with the result that there's no way to know how many animals were on the ark.
I am aware of this dilema ...I am also, avoiding it for the time being.
You can only avoid the problem by assuming that kind is equivalent to species. That would require the ark to carry something in the neighborhood of a million animals. If you can figure out how the ark could carry a million animals then no one will argue with you about your definition of kind, but can't we pretty much agree that the ark could never have carried a million animals?
So you need a definition of kind that isn't equivalent to species, because otherwise you can't know how many animals you'll need room for. Defining kind is fundamental to the problem.
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Grammar.

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DD2014
Junior Member (Idle past 3969 days)
Posts: 17
From: Cali, USA
Joined: 01-06-2009


Message 317 of 347 (499687)
02-19-2009 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Peg
12-02-2008 5:00 AM


Impossible
Current estimates of the total number of species on Earth are estamated at 17500000. Multiply that by two for a mating pair we get 35000000
35000000 / 7 days = 5000000
5000000 / 24 hours = 208333.3
208333.3/ 60 mins = 3472.2
So this would mean that on average 3472 animals would have entered the Ark per minute. I find this vary hard to belive considering the Ark was only aprox. 450ft x 75ft x 45ft.
Edited by DD2014, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 318 by onifre, posted 02-20-2009 10:24 PM DD2014 has replied

onifre
Member (Idle past 3032 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 318 of 347 (499829)
02-20-2009 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 317 by DD2014
02-19-2009 7:25 PM


Re: Impossible
1750000 x 2 does not equal 35000000. You have one too many 0's.
Should be 3500000.
That changes your final total.

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 Message 317 by DD2014, posted 02-19-2009 7:25 PM DD2014 has replied

Replies to this message:
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DD2014
Junior Member (Idle past 3969 days)
Posts: 17
From: Cali, USA
Joined: 01-06-2009


Message 319 of 347 (500105)
02-23-2009 3:27 AM
Reply to: Message 318 by onifre
02-20-2009 10:24 PM


Re: Impossible
Heh, thats what I get for drinking too much coffee
Thanks!

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Black
Member (Idle past 5265 days)
Posts: 77
Joined: 11-28-2008


Message 320 of 347 (500179)
02-23-2009 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by killinghurts
11-30-2008 11:45 PM


killinghurts,
killinghurts writes:
I have two questions for creationists out there with regards to the size of the Ark (specifically volume).
The constants according to my understanding of The Bible (correct me if I'm wrong) are:
a) It has to be big enough to house two (male and female) of each of every single species that has ever existed on Earth, including the dinosaurs, and some error margin for any species we haven't actually discovered yet, or has become extinct since
Incorrect. The only species that would have boarded the ark are the living species that a flood would kill.

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Replies to this message:
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onifre
Member (Idle past 3032 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 321 of 347 (500181)
02-23-2009 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 320 by Black
02-23-2009 7:49 PM


The only species that would have boarded the ark are the living species that a flood would kill.
So what happened to the dinosuars? That didn't kill humans and every other species? Or did humans get "created" after the dinos went extict? How did that creation story go again...?

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 Message 320 by Black, posted 02-23-2009 7:49 PM Black has replied

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 Message 322 by Black, posted 02-23-2009 8:45 PM onifre has replied

Black
Member (Idle past 5265 days)
Posts: 77
Joined: 11-28-2008


Message 322 of 347 (500185)
02-23-2009 8:45 PM
Reply to: Message 321 by onifre
02-23-2009 7:58 PM


onfire,
onfire writes:
So what happened to the dinosuars? That didn't kill humans and every other species? Or did humans get "created" after the dinos went extict? How did that creation story go again...?
There are regions of the world that are unexplored such as the swamps of Africa. The swamps of Africa are as large as some of the states in America but yet they are 80% unexplored.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 323 by onifre, posted 02-23-2009 9:02 PM Black has replied
 Message 324 by Coyote, posted 02-23-2009 9:11 PM Black has replied

onifre
Member (Idle past 3032 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 323 of 347 (500186)
02-23-2009 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 322 by Black
02-23-2009 8:45 PM


There are regions of the world that are unexplored such as the swamps of Africa. The swamps of Africa are as large as some of the states in America but yet they are 80% unexplored.
Are you saying the dinosuars are in Africa?

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 Message 322 by Black, posted 02-23-2009 8:45 PM Black has replied

Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2188 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 324 of 347 (500188)
02-23-2009 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 322 by Black
02-23-2009 8:45 PM


Dinosaurs
You do realize that dinosaurs became extinct some 65 million years before the Noah's ark myth, don't you?
And that the volume calculation of the ark is just a thought experiment to show that that specific part of the myth is physically impossible?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 322 by Black, posted 02-23-2009 8:45 PM Black has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 325 by Black, posted 02-23-2009 9:35 PM Coyote has replied

Black
Member (Idle past 5265 days)
Posts: 77
Joined: 11-28-2008


Message 325 of 347 (500192)
02-23-2009 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 324 by Coyote
02-23-2009 9:11 PM


Re: Dinosaurs
Coyote,
Coyote writes:
You do realize that dinosaurs became extinct some 65 million years before the Noah's ark myth, don't you?
Based on current exploration hence current scientific data. I have old science books that state our universe is 70,000,000 years old but based on current data it is approx. 20,000,000,000 years old. Who knows how old our universe will be in another 50 years. I also remember, historically, scientific data supporting a flat earth and even a geocentric earth. What other scientific data/facts do you have for me?
Coyote writes:
And that the volume calculation of the ark is just a thought experiment to show that that specific part of the myth is physically impossible?
In theory.
Edited by Black, : edit
Edited by Black, : edit
Edited by Black, : edit
Edited by Black, : edit

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 Message 324 by Coyote, posted 02-23-2009 9:11 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 328 by Coyote, posted 02-23-2009 10:29 PM Black has replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 816 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 326 of 347 (500196)
02-23-2009 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 325 by Black
02-23-2009 9:35 PM


Re: Dinosaurs
I have old science books that state our universe is 70,000,000 years old...
They must be old books in truth. Just our earth has been known to be older than that for about a century.
....but based on current data it is approx. 20,000,000,000 years old.
Not very current data. At least two separate lines of data lead to around 13.7 billion years - and that's been published for 10+ years now.

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

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 Message 325 by Black, posted 02-23-2009 9:35 PM Black has not replied

Black
Member (Idle past 5265 days)
Posts: 77
Joined: 11-28-2008


Message 327 of 347 (500199)
02-23-2009 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 323 by onifre
02-23-2009 9:02 PM


onfire,
Are you saying the dinosuars are in Africa?
Go find out.
Edited by Black, : edit

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 Message 323 by onifre, posted 02-23-2009 9:02 PM onifre has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2188 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 328 of 347 (500200)
02-23-2009 10:29 PM
Reply to: Message 325 by Black
02-23-2009 9:35 PM


Re: Dinosaurs
Coyote writes:
You do realize that dinosaurs became extinct some 65 million years before the Noah's ark myth, don't you?
Based on current exploration hence current scientific data. I have old science books that state our universe is 70,000,000 years old but based on current data it is approx. 20,000,000,000 years old. Who knows how old our universe will be in another 50 years. I also remember, historically, scientific data supporting a flat earth and even a geocentric earth. What other scientific data/facts do you have for me?
Science is increasingly accurate. Is that a problem for you? Or are you convinced that science is all wrong and the earth is something like 6,000 years old? If so, find or start an appropriate thread and we can discuss it.
Coyote writes:
And that the volume calculation of the ark is just a thought experiment to show that that specific part of the myth is physically impossible?
In theory.
No, in fact. That is the whole point of this thread. If you disagree, show some evidence.
I have evidence from my own archaeological research that disproves the global flood about 4,350 years ago. We can take that to an appropriate thread as well.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 325 by Black, posted 02-23-2009 9:35 PM Black has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 329 by Black, posted 02-23-2009 10:38 PM Coyote has replied

Black
Member (Idle past 5265 days)
Posts: 77
Joined: 11-28-2008


Message 329 of 347 (500202)
02-23-2009 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 328 by Coyote
02-23-2009 10:29 PM


Re: Dinosaurs
Coyote,
Coyote writes:
Science is increasingly accurate. Is that a problem for you? Or are you convinced that science is all wrong and the earth is something like 6,000 years old? If so, find or start an appropriate thread and we can discuss it.
I have respect for Science and Faith. One claims we came from a rock and another claims we came from God. However, they are both theoretical.
No, in fact. That is the whole point of this thread. If you disagree, show some evidence.
The actual volume calculation could be fact but what was inserted into the ark is theoretical.

Nothing is coming!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 328 by Coyote, posted 02-23-2009 10:29 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 330 by Coyote, posted 02-23-2009 11:00 PM Black has replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2188 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 330 of 347 (500206)
02-23-2009 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 329 by Black
02-23-2009 10:38 PM


Re: Dinosaurs & definitions
I have respect for Science and Faith. One claims we came from a rock and another claims we came from God. However, they are both theoretical.
Science is based on evidence. Faith is belief in spite of the lack of evidence (see below).
The actual volume calculation could be fact but what was inserted into the ark is theoretical.
There is no scientific evidence that the ark ever existed; it is a myth. The volume calculation, the subject of this thread, is a thought experiment.
You are using "theoretical" incorrectly. You most likely mean "speculation." The term "theory" is well-defined in science. Here are a couple of definitions which may help out:
Theory: A scientifically testable general principle or body of principles offered to explain observed phenomena. In scientific usage, a theory is distinct from a hypothesis (or conjecture) that is proposed to explain previously observed phenomena. For a hypothesis to rise to the level of theory, it must predict the existence of new phenomena that are subsequently observed. A theory can be overturned if new phenomena are observed that directly contradict the theory. (Source)
Faith: the belief in something for which there is no material evidence or empirical proof; acceptance of ideals, beliefs, etc., which are not necessarily demonstrable through experimentation or observation. A strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 329 by Black, posted 02-23-2009 10:38 PM Black has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 331 by Black, posted 02-23-2009 11:10 PM Coyote has replied

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