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Author Topic:   Noah's Ark volume calculation
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3101 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 76 of 347 (490319)
12-03-2008 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by johnfolton
12-03-2008 4:28 PM


The second month of the Jewish calendar as described in Genesis 7 is Iyar which equated to April and May which is spring not summer in the northern hemisphere.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by johnfolton, posted 12-03-2008 4:28 PM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by johnfolton, posted 12-03-2008 10:07 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

obvious Child
Member (Idle past 4115 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 77 of 347 (490322)
12-03-2008 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by ICANT
12-03-2008 3:23 PM


Re: Ark Size
The thing is the capacity of the ark is also dependent upon how it is built and how it supports the upper floors. You can't have just an open floor and expect it to hold its own weight much less animals and more floors above it. 1 foot for supporting timbers seems quite small given the square footage and how many animals we're talking about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by ICANT, posted 12-03-2008 3:23 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by ICANT, posted 12-03-2008 10:14 PM obvious Child has replied

killinghurts
Member (Idle past 4993 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 04-23-2008


Message 78 of 347 (490325)
12-03-2008 7:32 PM


It's strange, I would have thought that understanding the measurements of the Ark would be the *first* thing that a budding Christian would want to figure out...
How did Noah get all the animals we see today on his Ark?
The first time I heard the story of the flood and Noah, it was the very *first* thing that came to mind.
Why has it taken us 6 pages of thread to answer my very *simple* question?
Seems to me like there is no answer.

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 79 of 347 (490334)
12-03-2008 9:25 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by kuresu
12-03-2008 3:42 PM


Re: Ark Size
Hi kuresu,
kuresu writes:
I do believe that's ark-like.
450 x 180 is not ark like.
That is built on a 1 to 2 2/3 ratio.
The ark is built on 1 to 6 ratio just as most of our ships today are.
The treasure ships does show it is possible to build a large wooden vessel.
These vessels were built to navigate the ark was built to float it wasn't going anywhere.
I wonder what they built ships out of prior to the 1800's.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by kuresu, posted 12-03-2008 3:42 PM kuresu has replied

Replies to this message:
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ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 80 of 347 (490336)
12-03-2008 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by killinghurts
12-03-2008 6:25 PM


Re: Ark Size
Hi killinghurts,
killinghurts writes:
Hi ICANT, this is about one and a half times the average calculation specified by the other people in this thread - can you explain the difference?
That is using the Noah's cubit.
In Message 31 I gave a site for a caculator that has all the different measurments for the cubit's.
The caculator is Here.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by killinghurts, posted 12-03-2008 6:25 PM killinghurts has not replied

ICANT
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Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 81 of 347 (490339)
12-03-2008 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by killinghurts
12-03-2008 6:33 PM


Re-if possible
Hi killinghurts,
killinghurts writes:
It would stand to reason then, that *every* non-marine entity we see today (or has been seen since) *must* have been on the Ark. What other reasonable explanation is there?
The Bible doesn't say anything about everything being on the ark that I can find. I may have overlooked it.
The creatures on the ark are the ones that God had come to the ark.
Anything else could have been recreated just as they had been before.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by killinghurts, posted 12-03-2008 6:33 PM killinghurts has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by AdminNosy, posted 12-03-2008 10:00 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 83 by Coyote, posted 12-03-2008 10:01 PM ICANT has not replied

AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 82 of 347 (490342)
12-03-2008 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by ICANT
12-03-2008 9:45 PM


That's enough, ICANT
You have finished with this thread ICANT.
This is a science thread. You've agreed that you solution to the issues is not science but miracles.
We all know that anything can be handled with a made-up miracle.
You do not need to remind us again. Do not post to this thread with that kind of content again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by ICANT, posted 12-03-2008 9:45 PM ICANT has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 83 of 347 (490343)
12-03-2008 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by ICANT
12-03-2008 9:45 PM


Re: Re-if possible
The Bible doesn't say anything about everything being on the ark that I can find. I may have overlooked it.
The creatures on the ark are the ones that God had come to the ark.
Anything else could have been recreated just as they had been before.
The evidence shows that those various species continued with no interruption from before to after the date posited for the "global" flood (4,350 years ago).
As did human cultures, and human DNA lineages. The Egyptians didn't even notice the flood, and kept on building pyramids and the like.
Isn't is becoming obvious by now that the "global" flood is a local tribal myth and never really happened?
The ark was probably a local barge that had a lucky break when the Black Sea rose. And then, as Tolkein wrote, "The tale grew in the telling."

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

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 Message 81 by ICANT, posted 12-03-2008 9:45 PM ICANT has not replied

johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 84 of 347 (490344)
12-03-2008 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by DevilsAdvocate
12-03-2008 6:49 PM


The second month of the Jewish calendar as described in Genesis 7 is Iyar which equated to April and May which is spring not summer in the northern hemisphere.
October 17th in the second month from the creation of the world. Tishrei has been determined to be the first month since the creation of the world which puts Marcheshvan as the second month on the Hebrew calender.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=
There may be an echo here of a controversy in the Talmud about whether the world was created in Tishrei or Nisan; it was decided that the answer is Tishrei, and this is now reflected in the prayers on Rosh Hashanah.[14]
Hebrew calendar - Wikipedia
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 12-03-2008 6:49 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 12-04-2008 5:33 AM johnfolton has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 85 of 347 (490345)
12-03-2008 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by obvious Child
12-03-2008 7:19 PM


Re: Ark Size
Hi obvious,
obvious Child writes:
The thing is the capacity of the ark is also dependent upon how it is built and how it supports the upper floors.
There would be no problem engineering a wooden structure 50 feet tall.
The oldest wooden structure is 220 feet 10 inches tall. It has withstood several earthquakes and is 950 plus years old.
obvious Child writes:
1 foot for supporting timbers seems quite small given the square footage and how many animals we're talking about.
The supporting walls and the size of the rooms would determine the size of the beams. No floors or the roof would be a clear span. Everything would be supported by walls. The sides would be tied by the walls and floors.
We have no way of knowing how many animals were on the ark.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by obvious Child, posted 12-03-2008 7:19 PM obvious Child has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by killinghurts, posted 12-04-2008 2:22 AM ICANT has not replied
 Message 87 by obvious Child, posted 12-04-2008 2:36 AM ICANT has not replied

killinghurts
Member (Idle past 4993 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 04-23-2008


Message 86 of 347 (490370)
12-04-2008 2:22 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by ICANT
12-03-2008 10:14 PM


Re: Ark Size
quote:
We have no way of knowing how many animals were on the ark.
Yes we do, as I said earlier, it stands to reason that if there was a flood, all non-marine animals that exist today and have existed since *must* have been on the boat.
Your explanation of "well God can do anything so he may have created them later" is pure speculation. If that were the case I could take the same tangent even further and say that God created everything one hour ago, seeded all these memories in your head, placed dinosaur bones ranging from oldest to newest in corresponding stratum all over the world (just to confuse everyone), made all evidence of the flood disappear and, voila, here we all are. But that would be unreasonable now wouldn't it...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by ICANT, posted 12-03-2008 10:14 PM ICANT has not replied

obvious Child
Member (Idle past 4115 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 87 of 347 (490371)
12-04-2008 2:36 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by ICANT
12-03-2008 10:14 PM


Re: Ark Size
quote:
There would be no problem engineering a wooden structure 50 feet tall.
That depends on where it is located, what type of wood, what loads it was carrying and what stresses it would take. A simple structure not bearing loads and not having huge waves hit it every second is not a real problem.
quote:
The supporting walls and the size of the rooms would determine the size of the beams. No floors or the roof would be a clear span. Everything would be supported by walls. The sides would be tied by the walls and floors.
Agreed. That would severely reduce the total square footage.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by ICANT, posted 12-03-2008 10:14 PM ICANT has not replied

Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 88 of 347 (490382)
12-04-2008 5:29 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Larni
12-03-2008 7:10 AM


Re: How many 'species' on the ark?
today animals are restricted to their geographic locations, sure
but perhaps back in noahs day, with a much lower sea level and much more land and continents closer together, animals were free to roam anywhere on the earth
if the story of Noah is true, then obviously all the animals he collected could be found inhis geographic location
and back to the point of how the Papua New Guinea people walked to australia... that happened in the last 4-5 thousand years
so it in itself proves that sea levels must have been lower then they once were.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Larni, posted 12-03-2008 7:10 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Larni, posted 12-04-2008 7:39 AM Peg has replied
 Message 96 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 12-04-2008 10:17 AM Peg has not replied

Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 89 of 347 (490383)
12-04-2008 5:33 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by kuresu
12-03-2008 7:47 AM


Re: Ark Size
kuresu writes:
Actually, we are 1 species of little genetic diversity. Largely thanks to a bottleneck near-extinction event 70,000 years ago.
what event would that be?
and yes your right, i'll be more precise in my use of the term nationality... i did have in mind ethnicity, so ill use this term in future

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by kuresu, posted 12-03-2008 7:47 AM kuresu has replied

Replies to this message:
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DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3101 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 90 of 347 (490384)
12-04-2008 5:33 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by johnfolton
12-03-2008 10:07 PM


October 17th in the second month from the creation of the world. Tishrei has been determined to be the first month since the creation of the world which puts Marcheshvan as the second month on the Hebrew calender.
In that case, you are still wrong numnuts, as October is fall not summer. You were wrong about the Biblical lands being in the southern hemisphere and you are wrong in describing what season the flood supposedly happened in.
What a fruitless discussion. Talking to you is worse than trying to discuss politics with my 4 year old daughter.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by johnfolton, posted 12-03-2008 10:07 PM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by johnfolton, posted 12-04-2008 1:03 PM DevilsAdvocate has not replied

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