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Author Topic:   Endtime Prophecy and the European Union
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 313 (406925)
06-23-2007 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by CWHJr
06-22-2007 11:03 PM


Profoundly Put!
CWHJr writes:

Notice this verse does not say to study what todays teachers are saying about prophecy and its meaning. Study the word to show yourself aproved. You will learn the truth .

Exactly! A hearty welcome to EvC, CWH. Your statement is close to a paraphrase of Revelation 1:3 which states: "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand."

I began over 50 years ago as a child delving into the prophecies by reading everyone's book on prophecy I could get ahold of. I also studied the scriptures daily. What I began to discover is that the prophecy professionals were wrong on just about everything major.

I just opened this thread and it's too late now to post. Perhaps I will find time to weigh in on the topic late tomorrow.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by CWHJr, posted 06-22-2007 11:03 PM CWHJr has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by PaulK, posted 06-23-2007 5:04 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded
 Message 18 by Coragyps, posted 06-24-2007 3:57 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 313 (407127)
06-24-2007 12:18 PM


My apologies for the delay in responding to the OP. I've not had the time to do all the research I want to do. I'll weigh in as when I can get the time to put into it.
  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 313 (407379)
06-26-2007 12:17 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by CWHJr
06-24-2007 3:58 PM


Re: Arguing prophecy
CWHJr writes:

And if this is true then it is usless to argue prophecy with him.

Yes and no. Yes the Holy Spirit helps us understand and interpret scripture. No in that much prophecy text simply means what the words clearly say and should be comprehendable by anyone reading it and who is willing to let the words stand as written.

The problem is that one cannot do a quick reading of isolated texts and understand without having been in the book to have a head knowledge of the corroborating and related scriptures which apply to a given subject. "The time is at hand" means the time is at hand for the things in the book of Revelation to begin which means the church age is prophecied in the book. Thus imo, given the language used, the seven churches are being typical of seven dispensational periods of the church age, the descriptions in them matching quite well with 7 segments of church history in retrospect. The last church age is followed by the latter day events such as the one we're addressing in this topic concerning the antichrist et al.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by CWHJr, posted 06-24-2007 3:58 PM CWHJr has not yet responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 313 (407384)
06-26-2007 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by PaulK
06-25-2007 1:33 PM


Re: Logical conclusions
PaulK writes:

It's pretty clear that Daniel predicted the end at the time of Antiochus Epiphanes.
Jesus predicted that it would occur within the next few decades.

If people didn't assume that Jesus couldn't be wrong I don't think that there would be any significant controversy over either point.

It would be off topic to document most of them, but a number Daniel's prophecies either simply did not happen or could not have happened contemporaneous to when they were written.

As per topic, for example, the "end of sins" and "reconcilliation of iniquity" of Daniel 9:24 did not happen until the vicarious shed blood of Jesus which scripture says "cleanses all sin" I John 1:7.

According to the NT Jesus is the only one who makes for "everlasting righteousness" prophesied in the same verse.

"Anoint the most holy" as per context clearly refers to Jesus, the "most holy" who was anointed by the Holy Spirit as the dove ascended upon him at his baptism. He is clearly the most holy one, (same verse) scripture declaring ALL others to be sinful, coming "short of the glory of God" as per Romans 3:23

"Messiah the Prince" (v 25) who is clearly Jesus as per numerous OT prophecies was to come, again most certainly not contemporaneous to the day written.

So this seventy week period clearly never consumated contemporaneous to when it was written as per the words written in the prophecy.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by PaulK, posted 06-25-2007 1:33 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by PaulK, posted 06-26-2007 2:09 AM Buzsaw has responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 313 (407593)
06-26-2007 11:34 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by PaulK
06-26-2007 2:09 AM


Re: Logical conclusions
PaulK writes:

Yes, Daniel's prophecies did fail in some respects. The seventy week prophey in particular is a bit of a mess since the times don't seem to work out (although clearly the unknown author intended the end to fall in his own time) - and doesn't really work with the various other interpretations that Christians have proposed either (they have to ignore the 70th week or assert that it is entirely separate from the 69 - for which they can give no good reason).

The 69 weeks of years do precisely work out if you do the math on them. If you cannot agree to that, please show why you think they don't.

It's the 70th week only that raises the most controversy. A 7th Day Adventist prophecy teacher on Sky Angel TV (Dominion Broadcasting) taught that that last week happened contemporaneous to Jesus's baptism and ministry whereas the majority think it applies to an end time 7 years where a treaty is signed which will be broken midway which would be 3 1/2 years. I'm not convinced as to which yet but am fully convinced that the 69 come out in such a manner that a bonafide fulfilled prophecy is historical.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by PaulK, posted 06-26-2007 2:09 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 50 of 313 (407597)
06-27-2007 12:07 AM


The Kingdoms (beast horns)
These beast horns which are analogous to kingdoms are alluded to in three Biblical texts which are Daniel 7, Revelation 13 and Revelation 17. In order to determine what/who these are one must apply all of the info given in all three accounts. When you do this it does not come out applying to some revived Roman empire or EU confederation. It is clearly global. Note in Revelation 17 the wording goes that these rule as kings which could mean they are not literal kings/kingdoms or it may be that they are key powerful nations who dominate the politics of the planet. In the Daniel account some information is given that is not mentioned in the other two which reveals that the "little notable horn" will subdue three of the kingdoms which would make a total of eight since these three will become one as is implied.
At this point all we can do is watch and speculate as to how this will all work out. The point I wish to make is that according to the info in these three texts, this is global and not limited to the EU, though certainly the EU will be a player in it all.

The implication also in the 11th and 12th chapter of Daniel is that these end time powers will be of made up of two groups, the more northern ones and the more southern ones relative to Israel, the northern ones being the more totalitarian regimes and the southern being the more democratic.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past.
  
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