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Author Topic:   Exodus Part Two: Population of the Exodus Group.
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4132 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 37 of 142 (320930)
06-12-2006 7:51 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by John Williams
06-12-2006 1:35 PM


Re: Large numbers in the Book of Numbers
Furthermore, this Exodus party of of whome Hebrews and slaves remember (1250bc) under the weakening Egypt, may have meshed with other Hebrews and Israelites who themselves remember an Exodus from Egypt 300 years earlier during the (Hyksos)Amurru expulsion from Egypt by Ahmoses. These traditions may have been tied together to represent one complete History in 700 bc when J and E sources were combined.
do you have any evidence that the hyksos are hebrew, they are considered "semitic" but not hebrew, its a mistranlation equated with the hebrews, namely the mistranslation of hyksos as "shepperd-kings", but its wrong, as for egypt being weakened any evidence of this?
they never even ruled most of egypt only parts of it

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by John Williams, posted 06-12-2006 1:35 PM John Williams has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by John Williams, posted 06-13-2006 6:41 PM ReverendDG has replied

  
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4132 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 40 of 142 (321405)
06-14-2006 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by John Williams
06-13-2006 6:41 PM


Re: Large numbers in the Book of Numbers
I belive the 'Hyksos' were largely Amorites, or Canaanites from Syrio-Palestine. I furthermore believe that the ethnic afiliation of "Hebrews" didn't come about until 900-700 bc or later. Infact, I contend the Hebrews were simply a geographicaly broad social class, and likely one and the same as the early Habiri or Apiru who are mentioned some 200 times in ancient sources from 2150 to 1160 bc. I consider the Israelites to be one and the same as the Canaanites and Arameans (archaeologically speaking) up until 1100-1000 bc. The story of Joseph and Jacob in Egypt does, in my opinion, have deep roots in the Hyksos era c. 1700-1550, and I find this connection to have historical support from some of the more ancient historians including Josephus, who quotes Manetho. The Hyksos controlled Lower Egypt and moved its residence from Memphis to it's final capital Avaris where they ruled for a century. It was the Southern Egyptian nationals who waged war on these Arameans, and eventually captured and expelled them.
they where semtic in origin maybe even a branch of the caanites, but the evidence for the hyksos having anything to do with the hebrews is shakey. also josephus seems to have qouted Manetho wrong, hyksos means foreign rulers, they used it for everyone outside of egypt. historicly they have no clue who the hyksos are other than they were semitic in origin with many related names
Apiru worked as laborers and slaves in Egypt especially after Thutmose III's conquest of Canaan in 1480's bc. and even later still in 1290's while Rameses the great built his city of Pi-Rameses.
apiru meant others really theres no evidence it means anything but that
It's well known that by the late 19th-20th dynasty c.1200, Egypt was loosing control of Canaan, and by 1160 they had no share in Canaan.
It was during this time that Israel rose up as nation. Israel as a people were known to exist c. 1210 bc under Merenptah's short purge.
i have read they have been called israelites before there was such a place as israel
There were probably many different escapes or attempted escapes from Egypt--whom later semitic Hebrews and slaves of 18th-20th dynasty egypt would recollect. But none has ever been as large or notable as the Hyksos expulsion of c.1550. The city of Avars held some 250,000 people and the population involved with this expulsion must have been enormous. I feel that such an event would be remembered by the descendents of these Hyksos, the Israelites and their neighbors.
sorry was there another group people called hebrew who were not semitic?
the evidence is on you for proof of this, being that the hyksos were hunted down and destroyed i doubt they would remember this
wiki says:
The Hyksos continued to play a role in Egyptian literature as a synonym for "Asiatic" down to Hellenistic times. The term was frequently evoked against such groups as Jews settled in Aswan or the Delta, and this may have led the Egyptian priest and historian Manetho to identify the coming of the Hyksos with the sojourn in Egypt of Joseph and his brothers, and helped modern historians identify the expulsion of the Hyksos with the Exodus.
i guess they even turned it into a generic word for people outside of egypt too?
the thing is wouldn't someone write about a huge expulsion like that?, if you have 250k people moving i would think they would
Hyksos - Wikipedia

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