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Author Topic:   How does science disprove the Bible?
w_fortenberry
Member (Idle past 6136 days)
Posts: 178
From: Birmingham, AL, USA
Joined: 04-19-2002


Message 113 of 310 (409117)
07-07-2007 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Taz
06-23-2007 2:23 AM


Evidences Answered
There are currently about 2 million identified species of animal. Are we to believe that Noah gathered up 4 million animal and somehow had enough food and water to sustain them for a year on his boat?
Let me begin with a question of my own. How many of those 2million species live in the water and how many are land dwelling? It would also be helpful to know how many are insects. When you find the answers, we can discuss the food supply in more detail, but let me go ahead and point out that Noah and his family had plenty of time to prepare for the flood. It is highly likely that they thought to bring along a few nets for catching fish to feed the carnivores. Who knows, they may even have been able to gather enough flotsam to feed every herbivore on board as well. A world-wide flood would leave a lot of plants floating on the water. We must also keep in mind that the birds were able to leave the ark to search for food (Gen 8:6-12), thus we will need to know how many of the 2 million species are birds.
If there were only 2 of every animal, what did the herbivores (plant eaters) eat and what did the carnivores (meat eaters) eat after they got off the ark?
There were actually seven of every kind of clean beast and seven of every kind of bird brought onto the ark (Gen 7:2-3). This might have been done to provide for the needs of carnivores. We must also remember that the fish were not destroyed by the flood (Gen 7:21-23). As for the herbivores, the Bible clearly shows that Noah did not leave the Ark until plant life had resumed on the earth (Gen 8:10-12).
If the universe was created 6 thousand years ago, how come we can see stars that are millions of light years away?
Actually, the exact distances between the stars is unknown. Scientists have made some educated guesses based on assumed characteristics, but they still cannot say with certainty how far the stars are from the earth. But let’s assume for the moment that those guesses are correct. Dr. Russell Humphreys from the Institute for Creation Research has provided an answer for this question. I don’t believe his most recent findings have been published as yet, but let me quote the synopsis provided by ICR in their July 2007 issue of Acts and Facts.
quote:
Recently, Dr. Russell Humphreys, as part of the ICR COSMOS program, reported that he has successfully developed a new solution to Einstein’s equation of
general relativity which lays a foundation for a new creationist cosmology. His solution
is based on using boundary conditions which place earth at the center of the heavens
rather than at some insignificant position in a universe with no center or outer
boundary. He had reported earlier in Starlight and Time that time would be slowed
dramatically near the center of such a cosmos because of the gravitational effects of
the mass of stars surrounding earth. In other words, a day on earth would be equivalent
to millions or billions of years at the stars far from earth, resulting in sufficient time
for their light to reach earth in only thousands of years of earth time. Dr. Humphreys has now formulated his model into predictive equations which can be used to explain other observations and validate his solution, such as the red shifts of stars, the rotation of galaxies, and the “Pioneer Anomaly.”
quoted from Error | The Institute for Creation Research
Psalm 104:5 "He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." But we know through scientific observations that the Earth does indeed move.
The movement of the earth through space is often accepted as a proven fact when, in reality, all available evidence leads to the exact opposite conclusion. In fact Steven Hawking himself admitted as much in his book A Brief History of Time just before stating that he refused to believe that the earth was at the center of the universe because he was too modest to think of his planet as being something special (Stephen Hawking, A Brief History of Time: From the Big Bang to Black Holes - New York: Bantam Books, 1990 - pg. 42).
Isaiah 40:22 "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in."
The Earth is a circle? 2 dimensional? Flat? What more can I say?
This verse merely states that the earth has a circle which is true, for all spheres are composed of circles.
Ecclesiastes 1:6 "The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course."
Just so you know, the wind direction is predominantly east and west, not north and south.
Actually, the wind direction is predominantly North East or North West and South East or South West as you can see in this picture .
Genesis 22:17 "I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies"
The number of people on Earth right now is about 6.4 billion. There is an estimated 400 billion stars in this galaxy alone. The number of people on Earth right now doesn't even come close to 400 billion.
How many descendents of Abraham are alive right now? Do you know? Can you tell me how many descendants of Abraham were alive at any point in history from the time of Abraham’s death until now? Have you ever even tried to list all the countries that the Jewish people currently live in?
The Bible states that God will multiply Abraham’s descendants as the stars of heaven (Gen 22:17). It claims that the Jewish people will be so numerous that one will no more be able to count them than he could count the number of stars in the sky or sand on the seashore (Gen 13:16, 15:5, 32:12). It never states that there will be as many descendants of Abraham as there are stars in the sky; just that they will be equally innumerable.
I've been told all my life that the rapture is just right around the corner... anytime now. Well?
I think that the Bible has already answered this one far better than I ever could .
quote:
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness? (II Peter 3:3-11)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Taz, posted 06-23-2007 2:23 AM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by crashfrog, posted 07-07-2007 1:28 PM w_fortenberry has replied
 Message 115 by Coragyps, posted 07-07-2007 1:47 PM w_fortenberry has not replied
 Message 156 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-08-2007 1:57 AM w_fortenberry has not replied

w_fortenberry
Member (Idle past 6136 days)
Posts: 178
From: Birmingham, AL, USA
Joined: 04-19-2002


Message 127 of 310 (409166)
07-07-2007 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by crashfrog
07-07-2007 1:28 PM


Re: Evidences Answered
Since all fish would have been destroyed by the flood - it being impossible for the vast majority of fish to survive such a drastic change to their environment's salinity and silt load - the existence of fish in the contemporary world is evidence both of the flood being a myth and the Bible being false.
There is a large amount of evidence for fish and plankton being able to survive salinity changes. Let me suggest the following two pages from both the creationist and the evolutionist side of the discussion.
http://www.creationontheweb.com/...pdfs/cabook/chapter14.pdf
http://www.sciencedaily.com/...ases/2006/02/060219195841.htm
Parallax gives us a very precise measurement of the distance of the nearest stars to the Earth. That sets a minimum distance, of course, for all the others.
But parallax assumes that the star has not moved in relation to the earth during the six months that it takes to make the two measurements. Let me point out that I'm not denying the given distances; I'm just commenting on the fact that they are not definite. The evidence that I presented was in explanation of the apparent length of time necessary for light to travel those distances.
Um, no, that's not really what he says at all.
Allow me to give you a direct quote from the book.
quote:
Now at first sight, all this evidence that the universe looks the same whichever direction we look in might seem to suggest there is something special about our place in the universe. In particular, it might seem that if we observe all other galaxies to be moving away from us, then we must be at the center of the universe. There is, however, an alternate explanation: the universe might look the same in every direction as seen from any other galaxy, too. This, as we have seen, was Friedmann's second assumption. We have no scientific evidence for, or against, this assumption. We believe it only on grounds of modesty: it would indeed be most remarkable if the universe looked the same in every direction around us, but not around other points in the universe!
Not "has", "is". And a sphere and a circle are very different.
Again, let me provide you with a direct quote.
quote:
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Note that the phrase is "circle of the earth" not "the earth is a circle."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by crashfrog, posted 07-07-2007 1:28 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by Coragyps, posted 07-07-2007 7:51 PM w_fortenberry has not replied
 Message 138 by crashfrog, posted 07-07-2007 11:29 PM w_fortenberry has replied

w_fortenberry
Member (Idle past 6136 days)
Posts: 178
From: Birmingham, AL, USA
Joined: 04-19-2002


Message 172 of 310 (409247)
07-08-2007 8:34 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by crashfrog
07-07-2007 11:29 PM


Re: Evidences Answered
A few fish; some plankton; absolutely no coral.
Since coral still exist, it's clear that there was no flood.
Can you provide me with experimental evidence which supports your claim. I would like to see something similar to the two articles which I provided to support my statements.
No need; I own it.
I still don't see where he says what you said he said.
If you do not except my conclusion regarding Mr. Hawking's statement, then please provide an alternative conclusion.
Regardless, the Bible clearly means to imply a circular, not spherical, Earth.
How do you know that this is what "the Bible clearly means to imply." It seems that you are completely ignoring what the Bible says in order to force the text to fit your position.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by crashfrog, posted 07-07-2007 11:29 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by crashfrog, posted 07-08-2007 1:05 PM w_fortenberry has replied

w_fortenberry
Member (Idle past 6136 days)
Posts: 178
From: Birmingham, AL, USA
Joined: 04-19-2002


Message 242 of 310 (409403)
07-09-2007 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by crashfrog
07-08-2007 1:05 PM


Re: Evidences Answered
If you want to know about coral, I recommend:
Coral...A - Wikipedia massive influx of fresh water - from precipitation - would definitely lower the salinity of ocean water.
Actually coral, just like plankton, is much more resilient to change than most people believe.
For example, this website presents an experiment which shows that bleaching is actually beneficial to plankton rather than harmful.
It's abundantly obvious that he's not saying what you said he said. I don't see any part of your quoted material - nor is there any such text in the book - where he rejects the geocentricity of the universe simply on aesthetic grounds.
quote:
it might seem that if we observe all other galaxies to be moving away from us, then we must be at the center of the universe...There is, however, an alternate explanation...Friedmann's second assumption. We have no scientific evidence for, or against, this assumption. We believe it only on grounds of modesty:
If you can read statements in plain English, then how is it that you keep denying that Stephen Hawking made this statement.
How do you know that this is what "the Bible clearly means to imply."
Because I can read statements in plain English. What's your problem?
Surely you don't mean for this to be considered a scientific response.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by crashfrog, posted 07-08-2007 1:05 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 243 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-09-2007 11:02 AM w_fortenberry has not replied
 Message 245 by Modulous, posted 07-09-2007 11:16 AM w_fortenberry has not replied
 Message 247 by crashfrog, posted 07-09-2007 2:07 PM w_fortenberry has not replied
 Message 248 by cavediver, posted 07-09-2007 3:30 PM w_fortenberry has not replied

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