How does science disprove the Bible?

You've got it backwards. We can never PROVE a scientific theory, but it must in principle be subject to DISproof. See "Scientific Method":

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All hypotheses and theories are in principle subject to disproof.

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I would agree that "Science does not disprove the Bible from a Theological perspective", but would modify your second statement to say that it "does disprove many INTERPRETATIONS of the things mentioned in the Bible on a factual basis." Agreed; but I don't think the Bible necessarily teaches that the Flood was worldwide. Science disproves a specific INTERPRETATION of the Flood account (unless LOTS of miraculous events are postulated). I disagree; this is again an issue as to how the Bible is to be interpreted. Views such as the "Framework interpretation" are held by inerrantists and avoid conflict with science. Briefly, what is your scientific evidence AGAINST these things? (Lack of scientific evidence FOR something does not necessarily constitute scientific evidence AGAINST it, especially in fields such as archaeology or paleontology where much evidence remains undiscovered or has disappeared.)

The evidence that there was never a Garden of Eden as described in th Bible is pretty much overwhelming. In particular, Genetics and discoveries such as Oetzi show that we are not all related to some original pair of Humans that lived anytime recently and that humanity was pretty much spread out and advanced within what would have been the lifetime of Adam. Here it is mostly archaeological evidence. Many of the towns that were supposedly conquered were either unoccupied at the time the Conquest of Canaan happened, or merely small villages with no walls at the time. In addition, we have quite a bit of correspondence from the period and none of the rulers of the cities throughout Canaan seemed to notice either Hebrews, Hebrew armies or any organized invasion. The logistics as described in the Bible are quite frankly, impossible. There is absolutely no evidence of any Hebrew presence in Egypt at the time. The events in the folk tale are things that definitely would have been noticed by the other Great Powers in the area, both in the North and in the South. Things like a Pharaoh being killed would have destabilized the whole area. There is absolutely no evidence of a massive replenishment effort to replace the things supposedly lost during the fable.Finally there is the Exodus story itself. It is a classic example of an epic tale, replete with cliff hangers and miraculous escapes. It's the kind of tale told around the campfires, with each nights episode ending with a situation that will leave the audience breathless waiting for next weeks installment.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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jar:

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The evidence that there was never a Garden of Eden as described in th Bible is pretty much overwhelming.

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The text says this garden was not located on physical earth: it is metaphorical, and works excellently as such. It requires better textual cpmprehension.

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In particular, Genetics and discoveries such as Oetzi show that we are not all related to some original pair of Humans that lived anytime recently and that humanity was pretty much spread out and advanced within what would have been the lifetime of Adam.

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What is the alternative to the origin of all life forms to be other than from a dual-gendered specimen, as stated in Genesis? The theory of adaptation and cross-species does not cover this crucial issue. Have you attempted to estimate the odds for a first original male of any life form, encountering an exact female counterpart? I concur with Genesis' statement all original life forms emerged from a dual-gendered specimen: it is logical and scientific with no apparent alternative.

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There was not some conquest of Canaan as described in Joshua.

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Here it is mostly archaeological evidence. Many of the towns that were supposedly conquered were either unoccupied at the time the Conquest of Canaan happened, or merely small villages with no walls at the time. In addition, we have quite a bit of correspondence from the period and none of the rulers of the cities throughout Canaan seemed to notice either Hebrews, Hebrew armies or any organized invasion.

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What is not in dispute is that the Israelites did inhabit sovereinty of this land, for the dates mentioned, and most of the stated descriptions are agreed upon. There is no document in existence that makes any historical stats for such an ancient period - and vindicated even a fraction of the reporting as in the book of Joshua. Scholars have made great errors about Israel's ancient history, in far less complex issue than canaan: many have not recovered from the debacle king david was a mythical figure - such errors must be allowed for.

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If there was an Exodus, it was nothing like what was described in the Bible.

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The logistics as described in the Bible are quite frankly, impossible.

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Agreed. But there are some reportings of miracles in the OT, which you are referring to. There is no issue about the given distances from Goshen to Mount Sinai - but the miracles cannot be vindicated, nor can they be the only item which one judges the OT with. The provables have been vindicated - like no other document, even by comparison to those documents and scriptures which emerged 2000 years + later: eg - Buddhism, The NT and the Quran.

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There is absolutely no evidence of any Hebrew presence in Egypt at the time. The events in the folk tale are things that definitely would have been noticed by the other Great Powers in the area, both in the North and in the South. Things like a Pharaoh being killed would have destabilized the whole area. There is absolutely no evidence of a massive replenishment effort to replace the things supposedly lost during the fable.

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There is evidence of the Hebrews in Egypt at this time - from egypt; there is no mentioned of the pharoah being killed.

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Finally there is the Exodus story itself. It is a classic example of an epic tale, replete with cliff hangers and miraculous escapes. It's the kind of tale told around the campfires, with each nights episode ending with a situation that will leave the audience breathless waiting for next weeks installment.

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Have you attended a campfire where dates, names and locations are made of the period 2500 years before the Exodus event? Try it - use ficticious names and dates if you like, and let there be no errors in the calculations! Or better, try to name your ancestry even two generations removed, along with all names, dob and dods, etc? I remind you that all of the names listed in generations of various periods are accepted as authentic by archeology: there is nothing in existence to compete with the OT in this regard.

Please provide the support that the GOE was not on "Physical Earth." The origin being a simple sexless cell that divided. Please provide the support for that assertion. Please provide the support for that assertion. Please provide the support for that assertion.So far you have never provided any support for any of your assertions in any thread.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Evidence indicates that the first organisms were asexual, like amoeba. Sure it does. What we're missing is evidence of the specific evolutionary pathways that led to sexual reproduction. Evolution proceeds in tiny steps. No single-celled asexual organism ever divided into a sexual organism, just like that. The changes accumulated slowly over time. Like some organisms today that are able to reproduce both sexually and asexually, it is very likely that the first sexual organisms maintained the ability to reproduce asexually.I think what you actually mean to say isn't that evolution doesn't cover this and doesn't cover that, but that some of the physical events implied by evolutionary theory aren't possible.In some cases the physical events necessary are obvious and quite common, such as the reproductive errors (mutations) that occur in every generation, as well as allele mixing for sexually reproducing species. In other cases, such as the origins of sexual reproduction, the evidence for what the specific events might have been is largely absent, and so we can only speculate. If you can successfully identify an absolutely essential step in the evolution of sexual reproduction (not likely given how little we know), and if you can successfully show how that step is impossible, then you will have successfully demonstrated an insurmountable problem within evolutionary theory. The Bible doesn't even agree with itself concerning the descent from Abraham to Jesus.--Percy

Let us consider the scripture for a moment. Genesis 2:8-14 (KJV)

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And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

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And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads. The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold; And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone. And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia. And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.

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Now consider the signs that this was on earth. There is an easterly direction, which indicates it was on a planet. Also, earthly rivers are mentioned to flow out from Eden. Don't these seem to indicate that the garden was supposed to be on earth, considering the chapter is about the creation of the earth?Added by edit: Actually, never mind. I see above you have refuted my claim with the utmost clarity. It's all clear to me now. When Adam is a name, rather than a person, you can have an easterly direction and refer to other nations! But if those verses above, none of which actually mention Adam by name, refer to the garden, then the whole thing doesn't make any sense at all!Edited by Doddy, : abe (+ sarcasm)

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jar

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The text says this garden was not located on physical earth: it is metaphorical, and works excellently as such. It requires better textual cpmprehension.

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Please provide the support that the GOE was not on "Physical Earth."

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I did. Here: The Aggadah of Genesis: In Conflict With Science?

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What is the alternative to the origin of all life forms to be other than from a dual-gendered specimen, as stated in Genesis?

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The origin being a simple sexless cell that divided.

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There you go: 'divided' = duality. Let the sex be evidenced by the results.

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What is not in dispute is that the Israelites did inhabit sovereinty of this land, for the dates mentioned, and most of the stated descriptions are agreed upon.

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How can you ask such! King David, 250 years after Joshua, established Jerusalem as the capital (The Tel Dan discovery), and King Solomon built the Temple (numerous archeological finds are in the Jerusalem Museum).

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There is evidence of the Hebrews in Egypt at this time - from egypt; there is no mentioned of the pharoah being killed.

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I don't want to spam, but there is an Egyptian stele, more than 3000 years old, which mentions a war with Israel, and this has been addressed in this forum.

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I remind you that all of the names listed in generations of various periods are accepted as authentic by archeology: there is nothing in existence to compete with the OT in this regard.

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How about 'Ramases', Pithom and Goshen? 'Moses' ('Mosais'/Egypiant) is derived from the ancient Egyptian language, and means 'from water'. The first two words in the Ten Commandments are in the ancient Egyptian language ('I Am'/'Anno Chi'/Ex). Abram and Sarai are ancient Mesopotamium names circa 4000 years old; the nation of Moab has been identified as located in today's Jordan; Ruth is a Moabite name.

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Please provide the support for that assertion.

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So far you have never provided any support for any of your assertions in any thread.

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I don't think so. Your enquiries for proof are less than credible.

I'm sorry but let's actually look at where the Garden of Eden was. Please show in that passage where it says it was not on physical earth. I'm sorry but that is simply more of your bullshit. There is no sex for either the original or either of the two critters after the division. I'm sorry but what the hell does that have to do with the period of the alleged Conquest of Canaan? What the hell would that have to do with evidence of Hebrews being in Egypt at the supposed time of the Exodus? I'm sorry but that is simply a collection of nonsense. Were in there is there any evidence that any of the people mentioned in the Exodus myth ever existed? Where is there any evidence that Moses existed? How about Aaron? Where is there any evidence that Abraham ever existed?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I agree that it is difficult (impossible?) to figure out where it was supposed to be from the text. But I don't see how genetics or the iceman have anything to do with the existence of Eden. The iceman was about 3300 BC, which is pretty recent.(Your data does conflict with Usher's 4004BC date, but most conservative Bible scholars claim that dates before Abraham cannot be reliably ascertained from the Bible. Some inerrantists would put Adam as much as 50k-100k BC.)

I admit that at present there are conflicts between the biblical record and the archaeological record. But it is difficult to identify these tells with precision, and it is likely that some have been misidentified. Jericho is properly identified, but there are hints that its destruction may have been misdated.The lack of notice of Hebrews is an argument from ABSENCE of evidence. As I pointed out, archaeological data is often absent, so this should not be taken as evidence FOR any position.

Well, take a look at the thread Message 1.Usher was not very smart and of course, had an enormous blind spot or he would have simply asked the nearest Rabbi what year it was. LOL Ah yes, the school of "Theology by anything I can make up".The importance of Oetzi ( see Message 1) is that there is a vast body of genetic information there where we can see just how much things have changed since the period of the GOE myth. The results are, very little. Very little in humans, animals, plants, climate, even technology.It is also the total death knell for the Flood myth.FROM THE NEXT MESSAGE That is irrelevant. We have lots of communications from the rulers of the city states in the area during the period, and they, as I said, don't even offer a hint that there was some Hebrew army or invasion.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I don't see what you are tying to prove here at all. Yes the names of people, kingdoms, regions and cities can be found in archeology and common for the period of the writing of the various texts of the Bible... err so....The same can be said of the Iliad and Odyessy - was there really a Trojan War? very likely to some extent. Did a one-eyed cyclops really exist?. My bets are no.

Hi, Tex, help me out. At the creation of GOE, there existed a land of Ethiopia, a land of Assyria? Can`t be OUR Ethiopia/Assyria as the originals were buried under the sediments of the Flood. Likewise the old Euphrates. Un---less the newbies built right over the buried old. Was Genesis giving us another prophecy? WOW! Talk about accurate. Of course, nasty evos might suggest the whole tale was written AFTER the establishment of both an Ethiopian nation and an Assyrian empire. Me, I`m getting a headache trying to sort out the mess.

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jar

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I'm sorry but let's actually look at where the Garden of Eden was.

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I trust this is not veering from the thread subject. This misinfo of Eden has a parallel with the assumption the earth is 6000 years old. Its about correct comprehension of an exacting, technical text.Eden's setting is a non-physical realm. The 'LET "US" MAKE MAN' denotes Gd talking with angels in a realm other than earth, which was created before the earth as per V1:Genesis
"26 And God said: 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.' "Adam, created on earth, is taken away and placed in another (different) realm, 'Eden':"8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward, in Eden; and there He put the man whom He had formed."'Eden' is not on earth, but a paradisical non-physical realm. Note Eden 'was parted' (separated):"10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted "In Eden, spiritual beings do not wear attire and have no shame, being incapable of free choice or sin (no commandments apply in Eden):"7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig-leaves together, and made themselves girdles. "Adam was cast out from Eden and placed on physical earth - 'from whence he was taken' signifies Eden is a different realm, where 'serpents' talk and wherein is the fruit of knowledge and of everlasting life:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.Re-entry to Eden was fastidiously barred, with cherubim (angelic beings) guarding the gates:24 So He drove out the man; and He placed at the east of the garden of Eden the cherubim, and the flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way to the tree of life.Back to physical earth, where 'gold' is mentioned, a material entity not existing in the non-physical realm:"11 The name of the first is Pishon; that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold"# 'East' of Eden is also mentioned in the book of Exodus, denoting a heavenly realm: "And the Lrd caused a strong Easterly wind" - to split the sea.