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Author Topic:   Aliens and the Bible
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4165 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 41 of 147 (420119)
09-06-2007 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Ihategod
08-26-2007 9:32 PM


Highest..:
Is their life on other planets and if so what are the implications?

I not only believe there is intelligent life beyond us in this universe, but in a sense, even beyond this universe. I also believe that life has contacted us quite clearly.

A man once said to me that he was hoping for an alien race to come and save us from our own tendency to destroy ourselves.

My first thought was to tell him that his proposal is ridiculous and a totally faith based hope (no such thing as aliens etc…). But instead, I said to him, “It already happened two thousand years ago.”

“The Aliens came… not in some relatively crude spacecraft that we envision to be advanced, but rather in the most sophisticated vessel in the known universe; a human body. And did so by some astonishingly alien and technologically advanced method of virgin birth.

He told the Roman Governor Pilate that His kingdom was not of this world. He revealed His true self to His disciples in the transfiguration on the Mount of Olives which left them terrified, but He said to them, ‘be not afraid’.

We then crucified this alien visitor because He claimed these things and threatened our wrongly desired power. He rose again on the third day. He then mysteriously ascended into heaven in a fashion that is possibly similar to a Star Trek transporter (not technologically so to speak, but quite naturally). And before leaving, He told His followers that He would return to raise them to life again and take them into His eternal dwelling.”

The man’s face grew a bit pale when I told him this. I was only glad to see Him make the connections for the first time and see that the Biblical Christ was far more plausible than He had ever considered and actually claimed to meet the desires of His heart.

He no longer perceived a disconnect between his own hope, and that offered by Christ. It is a perspective that is worthy of consideration because this visitor did not only promise to reward us with the inner peace we seek if we simply believe blindly; but promised to open our eyes to the truth, and reveal Himself by the Holy Spirit individually if we ask Him. It is seeing faith, not blind faith.

Since I have seen Him for myself, I know it is true. As for the rest who seek and believe in such things, we should tell them that the idea is not modern science fiction, but ancient and present reality.

The implications?

Frogiveness of sins and the subsequent establishment of a relationship with the creator of heaven and earth.

Personally, I call that ‘Good News’!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Ihategod, posted 08-26-2007 9:32 PM Ihategod has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-06-2007 10:28 AM Rob has responded
 Message 45 by kuresu, posted 09-06-2007 10:45 AM Rob has responded
 Message 55 by Ihategod, posted 09-06-2007 12:53 PM Rob has not yet responded

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4165 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 60 of 147 (420237)
09-07-2007 12:00 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by New Cat's Eye
09-06-2007 10:28 AM


CS
Considering that, then all of Jesus' miracles could have been faked if he was an alien with significantly advanced technology.

Well personally, I am assuming the technology to be advanced, yet as natural as gravity. Neither of which we understand...

What's the difference between a fake miracle and a real one?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-06-2007 10:28 AM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4165 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 61 of 147 (420238)
09-07-2007 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by kuresu
09-06-2007 10:45 AM


Kuresu:
Do you have any outside (of the bible) corroboration of this alien and the things this alien did?

Well all knowledge is based either in experience, or authority...

Since I have made contact with Him personally (experience) yes! And my experience confirms what the others supposedly said of Him. In fact, the Bible is the book that explains what I have been experiencing.

After meeting Him myself, I can now recognize the descriptions as authoritative.

I assure you... you will meet Him too. He really is the Christ!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by kuresu, posted 09-06-2007 10:45 AM kuresu has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by kuresu, posted 09-07-2007 12:14 AM Rob has responded

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4165 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 63 of 147 (420242)
09-07-2007 1:03 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by kuresu
09-07-2007 12:14 AM


Kuresu:
How can we now that you did in fact meet 'the Christ' and not some figment of your imagination?

You can't.

You have to choose to either believe me or not. I have no control over you. I can only tell you that I believe with all my mind, all my soul, and all my heart that he really is the truth.

And the reason is because I have a experienced Him, and have a continuing dialog.

Believe whatever you want.

But I'll say it again... You will meet Him. It's not a matter of if but when. You may not know, but I do know.

I don't care whether you believe me or not. I don't need your approval. But I do pray that you will...

The only reason I am here is to testify to what I believe in hope that those who want to know, might be encouraged to believe in spite of rigorous attempts to ridicule anyone who does not bow to the worshippers of the creation, rather than the creator.

I bow to God. And I bow to Him because He revealed Himself to me as He promised He would. And He did so in spite of the fact I do not deserve to know.

Imagine my shock... Here I am praying to this God I don't know, only because I knew in my innermost being that I really was a sinner who deserved to never know Him (as He said). I had to admit that that part was right. But maybe He really would forgive me and show himself. I had always thought a personal relationship with Christ was just made up too.

We're more alike than you know...

I didn't really understand it... But I prayed like a fool, and asked Him to forgive me and show me how to live. No strings... I let it all out... tears and all. I told Him that if He would help me to understand what the point of this charade 'called life' is, that I would give Him my whole life in exchange for actually knowing the truth. And I thanked Him for paying the price for my sins...

Imagine my shock when He showed up over the next few weeks! I realized then, that I didn't really believe before.... it was a little leap of faith (a mustard seed). All I did was open my heart and mind to the possibility (remote as it was). But now I don't have to believe blindly, for I have seen Him. My eyes were opened.

If that makes me a fool in your eyes, then I am a fool in your eyes. The only difference is that I know what I know just as He told me I would know, and you don't know what I know. And you don't know, because you (at least for now) refuse to believe and ask Him.

Maybe I am just mad... or maybe I am telling the truth.

The only way you can know is through Him. To do what I have done with an honest and broken heart. Not as a test, but because you really mean it. Because you really want to know and will sacrifice anything to know it.

You don't have to believe me. It's not about me. It's really about whether He was who He claimed to be. He's the one who claimed to be the truth incarnate; not me...

Do you really want to know?
Or are you only trying to make me look like a fool?

If you accuse me of preaching instead of answering your question, then I know it is the latter because the preaching of the Gospel is the answer to your question.

I know it is not a figment of my imagination because He talks to me in an incredible way that words cannot describe. I can see Him, and distinguish Him from me. Just like in talking to you, I know you're not me; in talking to Him, I know He is not me.

Believe it or not...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by kuresu, posted 09-07-2007 12:14 AM kuresu has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by kuresu, posted 09-07-2007 2:05 AM Rob has responded

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4165 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 64 of 147 (420243)
09-07-2007 1:13 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by kuresu
09-07-2007 12:14 AM


Kuresu:
Nice dodge. Answer my first post.

What do you want me to say... that it is not scientific but metaphysical?

But it is as scientific as you can get individually. Faith (theo) + test + confirmation = evidence! But collectively it is pure metaphysics. I can't run the test for you. And you don't have to believe my results. But I do, because they're my results. And I know the difference between an image, and the real thing.

Before, God was the image I created for me. Now God is God, and I am me.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by kuresu, posted 09-07-2007 12:14 AM kuresu has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by kuresu, posted 09-07-2007 2:13 AM Rob has not yet responded

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4165 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 74 of 147 (420290)
09-07-2007 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by kuresu
09-07-2007 2:05 AM


Kuresu:
One final thing--you sold your soul. You exchanged everlasting obediance for an answer to a question man is capable of answering on his own. Congrats.

Yes you're quite right. But it was sold before also. I never owned it. And neither will you. but by giving it away, it was given to me.

It's something you'll never understand, because you refuse to give up control. Therefore it will be taken from you, because in reality, you are out of control.

Matthew 16:24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it. 26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

It doesn't matter whether you believe it.

Kuresu:

This doesn't prove that what you see isn't a figment of your imagination. Smeagol thinks Gollum is a different person. He talks to Gollum, and Gollum talks to Smeagol. Frodo can see Smeagol, and Sam can see Gollum. However, Smeagol doesn't see that Gollum isn't real. This doesn't make Gollum real. That is, it doesn't make Gollum separate from Smeagol--Gollum is Smeagol, Smeagol is Gollum.

That's an excellent illustration. I often feel like Smeagol. And I often feel like Gullom. And both are me. That is why death will be so sweet. Freedom from Gullom once and for all. The flesh will perish with all of it's sinful desires. The only thing left will be the eternal life giving Spirit within (the real me).

You on the other hand are Gullom. You hate, and spit and claw. You have no life on the other side that wrestles with your uncontrolled lusts and reasons with you. You hate any thought of a crisis of conscious. So you keep the little Smeagol voice inside chained and broken.

At least that's the image you convey... I don't believe it. I actually think you are not Gullom. Gullom isn't the real you and never was the real you. Gullom is only a masqureade built to cope with the pain inside the real you. And the real you is not powerful enough to overcome the Gullom. And the real you wants to believe... but the Gullom talks you out of it and mocks you for even entertaining the idea. So when you see others like me who have believed, you hate us.

You need the love and forgivness of Christ who died for you. He will come to you, and put Gullom in chains. He will show you how to live.

Gullom has lied to you.

Anyway, I am not going to continue this dicsussion. Say whatever you want. You're going to believe what you choose to believe. I'm going to believe what I know is the truth because He helps me. And only because I admitted that I was strong enough which was the first true thing I had to admit.

Some of you will never admit that. You refuse to give up control and are therefore out of control. But you can choose if you want to. but that's not what you want. So chase your illusion. Believe the lie. I suppose to you it is better than making yourself vulnerable to receiving love and being rejected again.

Isn't that what this is all about; fear of rejection?

Do not be afraid for your God loves you more than you could possibly imagine.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by kuresu, posted 09-07-2007 2:05 AM kuresu has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by kuresu, posted 09-07-2007 12:12 PM Rob has responded
 Message 90 by nator, posted 09-08-2007 6:47 AM Rob has not yet responded

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4165 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 89 of 147 (420441)
09-07-2007 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by kuresu
09-07-2007 12:12 PM


Kuresu:
Rob thinks God is real. God isn't real. God is a figment of Rob's imagination, but he doesn't see that.

The point was this--how can you tell it's not a figment of your imagination? You claimed that he was separate from you, and thus, real. Well, Smeagol claims the same about Gollum. How can Smeagol tell that Gollum isn't a figment of his imagination?

Because millions of others can see Him too. In fact, when I read the Bible, I see that people 6 thousand years ago saw Him and they can explain to me what it is I am seeing with language that captures Him.

It's not like I am the only one to become a fool. Maybe one of the last... but not the only one.

OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
Take comments concerning this warning to the Moderation Thread.
AdminPD

Edited by AdminPD, : Warning


This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by kuresu, posted 09-07-2007 12:12 PM kuresu has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by nator, posted 09-08-2007 6:53 AM Rob has responded

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4165 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 92 of 147 (420508)
09-08-2007 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by nator
09-08-2007 6:53 AM


Nator:
Most people in the world are NOT Christians, did you know that?

And fewer people than that are atheists...

And I don't know about globally, but in the US, the majority believe in special creation despite what the institution of 'so called science' peddles as science. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/10/22/opinion/polls/main965223.shtml

Like you said, it doesn't really matter... ad populum is a fallacy typically reserved for the appeal to concensus made by relativists.

Ps. you might want to read through the thread on 'converting raw energy' that I started in origins of life. It'll help explain why people don't believe you and folks like molbiogirl.

OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
Take comments concerning this warning to the Moderation Thread.
AdminPD

Edited by AdminPD, : Warning


This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by nator, posted 09-08-2007 6:53 AM nator has not yet responded

  
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