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Author | Topic: Wyatt's Ark of the Covenent | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Brian Member (Idle past 5214 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Hi Jim,
there are thousands of stories of people being helped by angels all over the world, and these stories verify the existence of the angels! You are mistaken yet again. Thousands of stories about ANYTHING does not verify its existence, all it verifies is that there are thousands of stories about it. There are thousands of stories about alien abduction, does this verify that there are alien abductions? Stories Jim do not verify the existence of anything contained within these stories, you need external evidence that can be objectively studied and tested to verify anything. These stories may verify the belief in angels, but that is all. It is the same with 99% of Ron's work. A blurry pic of what he says is the Ark does not verify that it is a pic of the Ark. Ron claiming that 4 angels helped to lift the mercy seat off the Ark is not proof that there are angels, or indeed that there is an Ark. Ron saying that he has a video of angels keeping an eye on the Ark is similarly not proof of anything other than Ron is claiming that the video exists. Come on Jim, try thinking about what you are saying. Brian. PS, I think, as a Christian, Jar would have difficulty denying the existence of angels. I mean, who told Mary that she was pregnant, who told Joseph. The actual meaning of the word would make it impossible for a Christian to deny their existence. This message has been edited by Brian, 05-09-2005 11:45 AM
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Lysimachus Member (Idle past 5446 days) Posts: 380 Joined: |
PecosGeorge,
quote: That's right, so what is the proper thing for a Christian to do? To not judge, and wait and see. You violated a Christian principle in your following quote:
quote: You have no way to blatantly know this. You do not know this is 100% true. Only until you have been properly informed of all the evidence can you finally form a conclusion. There is so much on the Ark of the Covenant that you don't know. For example, did you know that there is a huge study that totally debunks the theory that the earthly Ark of the Covenant was taken to Heaven? There are two Arks, the Heavenly and the Earthly. The earthly is still here, and it can be proven through scripture from a solid study. You need to read Jonothan Gray's 590 page book called entitled "Ark of the Covenant". It would be a great eye-opener for you regarding what was prophecied. Numerous ancient documents give clues to the Ark's location--within the walls of Jerusalem. Jeremiah hid it in that cave Ron Wyatt located it in just before the Babylonians leveled out the city. This is why we find so many layers of walls throughout Zedekiah's cave. BTW, if the Ark of the Covenant and Ten Commandments were revealed to the world now, it would defy prophecy. They will be revealed to the world just before Probation closes and Jesus comes. The evidence provided so far is only to test people. As believers in historic SDA principles, we believe that Ellen White was a prophet of God. You do not have to accept anything she says, but I will quote what she says anyway so you get a glimpse of where we are coming from: "Elder Bates was keeping the Sabbath, and urged its importance. I did not feel its importance, and thought that Elder B. erred in dwelling upon the fourth commandment more than upon the other nine. But the Lord gave me a view of the heavenly sanctuary. The temple of God was opened in heaven, and I was shown the ark of God covered with the mercy-seat. Two angels stood one at either end of the ark, with their wings spread over the mercy-seat, and their faces turned toward it. This my accompanying angel informed me represented all the heavenly host looking with reverential awe toward the law of God which had been written by the finger of God. Jesus raised the cover of the ark, and I beheld the tables of stone on which the ten commandments were written. I was amazed as I saw the fourth commandment in the very center of the ten precepts, with a soft halo of light encircling it. Said the angel, 'It is the only one of the ten which defines the living God who created the heavens and the earth and all things that are therein. When the foundations of the earth were laid, then was also laid the foundation of the Sabbath. I was shown that if the true Sabbath had been kept there would never have been an infidel or an atheist. The observance of the Sabbath would have preserved the world from idolatry. The fourth commandment has been trampled upon, therefore we are called upon to repair the breach in the law and plead for the broken down Sabbath. The man of sin who exalted himself above God, and thought to change times and laws, brought about the change of the Sabbath from the seventh to the first day of the week. In doing this he made a breach in the law of God. Just prior to the great day of God, a message is sent forth to warn the people to come back to their allegiance to the law of God which antichrist has broken down. Attention must be called to the breach in the law by precept and example. I was shown that the third angel proclaiming the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, represents the people who receive this message and raise the voice of warning to the world, to keep the commandments of God and his law as the apple of the eye, and that in response to this warning many would embrace the Sabbath of the Lord." {Life Sketches, 1880 236.3} Here she's speaking of the heavenly Ark of the Covenant. But she also makes it very clear that the earthly tablets will be revealed to the world: "Among the righteous still in Jerusalem, to whom had been made plain the divine purpose, were some who determined to place beyond the reach of ruthless hands the sacred ark containing the tables of stone on which had been traced the precepts of the Decalogue. This they did. With mourning and sadness they secreted the ark in a cave, where it was to be hidden from the people of Israel and Judah because of their sins, and was to be no more restored to them. That sacred ark is yet hidden. It has never been disturbed since it was secreted." {PK 453.2} Law Preserved in Ark.--"And He [Christ] gave unto Moses, when He had made an end of communicating with him upon Mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written by the finger of God." Nothing written on those tables could be blotted out. The precious record of the law was placed in the ark of the testament and is still there, safely hidden from the human family. But in God's appointed time He will bring forth these tables of stone to be a testimony to all the world against the disregard of His commandments and against the idolatrous worship of a counterfeit Sabbath (MS 122, 1901). {1BC 1109.2} There are abundant evidences of the immutability of God's law. It was written with the finger of God, never to be obliterated, never to be destroyed. The tables of stone are hidden by God, to be produced in the great judgment-day, just as He wrote them (RH March 26, 1908). {1BC 1109.3} "When the judgment shall sit, and the books shall be opened, and every man shall be judged according to the things written in the books, then the tables of stone, hidden by God until that day, will be presented before the world as the standard of righteousness. Then men and women will see that the prerequisite of their salvation is obedience to the perfect law of God. None will find excuse for sin. By the righteous principles of that law, men will receive their sentence of life or of death (Ibid., Jan. 28, 1909). {1BC 1109.4} Because of Israel's transgression of the commandments of God and their wicked acts, God suffered them to go into captivity, to humble and punish them. Before the temple was destroyed, God made known to a few of His faithful servants the fate of the temple, which was the pride of Israel, and which they regarded with idolatry, while they were sinning against God. He also revealed to them the captivity of Israel. These righteous men, just before the destruction of the temple, removed the sacred ark containing the tables of stone, and with mourning and sadness secreted it in a cave where it was to be hidden from the people of Israel because of their sins, and was to be no more restored to them. That sacred ark is yet hidden. It has never been disturbed since it was secreted. {SR 195.1} "By these words Christ has placed this matter beyond all the sophistry of human conjecture. "And He [Christ] gave unto Moses, when He had made an end of communing with him upon Mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God" (Exodus 31:18). Nothing written on those tables could be blotted out. The precious record of the law was placed in the ark of the testament and is still there, safely hidden from the human family. But in God's appointed time He will bring forth these tables of stone to be a testimony to all the world against the disregard of His commandments and against the idolatrous worship of a counterfeit Sabbath.--Ms 122, 1901, pp. 1-4. ("The Law," November 23, 1901.) This is not to mention all that has been written in the books of Appocrypha and Pseudeppigrapha: 2 Macabees 2: 4- 8, 13-15 2 Burach 6: 4-9 2 Burach 80: 2 2 Burach 4: 5 - 7 Josephus, Antiquties of the Jews, Book 9, Chapter 8:2 (165) Book 9, Chapter 8:4 (202) Book 9, Chapter 12:3 (254) Book 10, Chapter 8:5 (145) Book 10, Chapter 8:7 (154) Book 8, Chapter 4:1 (101) Book 8, Chapter 4:1 (104) Book 8, Chapter 4:1 (105) Book 8, Chapter 3:7 (88 - 90) Book 8, Chapter 3:8 (91 - 94) Bible references to Ark of the Covenant journeys: There is also a very large list from scripture from Judges, 1 Samuel, 2 Samuel, 1 Chronicles, 1 Kings, 2 Kings, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, and Ezra that would be too long for me to assmeble right now. Just realize that you have a lot of homework to do before you come to your conclusions. If I have time, I'll get the list of Bible verses later. For now, there's enough to chew on. For those of you who think Ron Wyatt should have revealed all the evidence, he couldn't as it would defy the prophecy. It will be revealed to the world at the right time, so that all may see. If it had been revealed way earlier to the world, then today I know it would have to be a fraud. Brian, I beg of you, quit kicking against the pricks. God is trying to help you see that you need to open your heart and open your eyes as to what is coming up on this earth. Do not keep resisting and fighting your conscience. This message has been edited by Lysimachus, 05-09-2005 11:48 AM
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Brian Member (Idle past 5214 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Hi Lysimachus,
Thanks for the advice, but I do not believe that I am kicking against anything. I am all for objective research and sharing of information, but there simply too much emphasis placed on Ron's 'evidence'. If anyone else had provided evidence of this quality Lysimachus, you would not entertain it for a minute. But, hey, it's your life, you are free to believe what you want, so good luck to you. But, other people have different standards as to what constitutes reasonable evidence, it appears that I am a little more choosy than Ron's supporters are about what I believe . Ron's Ark story is a nice cosy little tale, but until something tangible is presented, it remains nothing more than a story. Brian.
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JimSDA Inactive Member |
Jar, sorry, it was Charles Knight who said he doubted angels in message #204, and I got the two of you mixed up -- thought it was you who said it --
(Isn't Charles one of your clones? . . . ) This message has been edited by JimSDA, 05-09-2005 12:57 PM
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ramoss Member (Idle past 867 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
quote: A lot of things are mentioned on news that are just plain amusing.. such as a stain in an underpass that the faithful insist looks like the virgin mary (and looks like a gender specific piece of anatomy to me, but then again I have a dirty mind). ' That doesn't mean it is true.. just a good laugh.
quote:Well, if there was evidence, people like you would have actually PRESENTED it, instead of making stupid statements, and unverified claims. I mean, where is the beef. You talk on how it goes aginst 'the entire concept of honest/serious scientific investigation', but when it comes to presenting the evidence, we get blurred photos, unsubstantiated wild claims, and childish accusations. Give objective evidence that can be investigated. I suspect I will getclaims, and avoidence of the issues yet again.
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JimSDA Inactive Member |
Brian, when you hear the testimony of a respected professional like a policeman or a doctor who sees a UFO in the sky and there is video of it shot by others, then you can believe the story --
If I hear how a woman in my church was about to step off a curb and get hit by a speeding bus that she didn't see, and she was sudden turned 180 degrees around so that she actually stepped away from the busy street just as the bus sped by, then I count her story as truth because I and others have known her for years to be a completely honest person. Her guardian angel protected her from stepping into that street. And I heard from the person whom it happened to! Which just verifies that the Bible is telling us the truth about invisible angels being all around us! And with the sightings and filming of thousands of UFOs, I think it's safe to say that they all aren't "swamp gas," Brian!
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JimSDA Inactive Member |
And here's yet ANOTHER guy on this forum -- ramoss -- who thinks there's absolutely "no" evidence to Ron's discoveries!
Amazing -- ramoss, why don't you show us all how "easy" it is to get something onto 20/20 or Dateline? Go for it, my friend -- pick any of your pet projects, get in touch with the story editors of 20/20 and Dateline and SHOW US ALL HOW EASY IT IS TO GET YOUR STUFF ONTO NATIONAL TV! Yeah, show me -- as if you could EVER get anything onto any of those national network TV shows!
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ramoss Member (Idle past 867 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Oh, I am sure they weren't all "swamp gas". Some will be venus, some will be mars, some will be weather balloons, some even might be air planes, satallites.
However, there is zero evidence that any of them are extraterestrial vechicals. After all, just because there is a object that is flying that is unidentified doesn't mean it is anything strange like that.
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jar Member (Idle past 94 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Did Ron Wyatt and do you publish the information that refutes your assertions such as all of the other glyphs found on the rock Ron, and YOU, claim is the Altar of the Calves?
Did Ron Wyatt and do you publish the information that refutes your assertions such as the fact that the dating of the other glyphs found on the rock Ron, and YOU, claim is the Altar of the Calves is from at least 1000 years before the Biblical date for the Exodus? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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JimSDA Inactive Member |
Brian, do you know who Dr. Ekrem Akurgal is? He was Turkey's foremost archaeologist -- he was responsible for the discovery of evidence for the Hittite nation which made him world-famous -- Dr. Akurgal met with Ron Wyatt in 1985 and when he saw the photos of the Noah's Ark formation, he said:
"At any rate, it is a ship ... it must be preserved ..." If it only takes a couple of minutes to convince a world-famous archaeologist that the Durupinar formation in Eastern Turkey is a giant ruined boat embedded in an ancient mud flow at 6,000 feet above sea level on a mountain that is miles away from any ocean or body of water, then how blind are you? Dr. Ekrem Akurgal could see it very easily! But you can't, eh? We have no evidence, you say? The evidence was fine for Dr. Akurgal! Are you telling me that YOU are "more professional" than a world-famous archaeologist?
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JimSDA Inactive Member |
ramoss, then the bottom line to the thousands of sightings of UFOs and the thousands of stories of angel interventions is that THERE IS SOMETHING TO IT, even though we don't know all the answers yet!
And more study is required -- just like more study is required on Ron Wyatt's sites!
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Yaro Member (Idle past 6751 days) Posts: 1797 Joined: |
Jim, Lys... Is Wyatt a prophet in your eyes?
You seem to take our critisim rather seriously. Do you think denying the verasity of Rons finds constitutes mortal sin? Seriously, I'm curious.
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CK Member (Idle past 4382 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: |
No Jar - is a believer - I treat all Religious stories (be they christian, Islamic or Asgardian) as utter bullshit untill someone shows me otherwise*
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Brian Member (Idle past 5214 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Jim,
I am talking about the Ark of the Covenant, and the blurry picture of it that Ron took. This thread is about the Ark of the Covenant not Noah's Ark. Of course I have heard of Akurgal, who sadly passed away a couple of years ago, but this is irrelevant as I didnt mention Noah's Ark.
We have no evidence, you say? I think you will find that I am the only one who admits that there is evidence!
Are you telling me that YOU are "more professional" than a world-famous archaeologist? I am certainly more professional than Wyatt ever was! Try and focus on who is saying what in the debate, this is the second mistake you have made in a handful of posts. If you weren't so hateful of everyone that disagree with you then people would be sympathetic and understand that these mistakes are probably as a result of having to deal with a lot of people at the same time. For what its worth, I can see the outline of what 'looks' like a boat, however, it has been shown that it is a natural formation. But let's keep that for the right thread. Brian.
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Lysimachus Member (Idle past 5446 days) Posts: 380 Joined: |
Ron was no prophet, but God did use him as a humble servant. That I do believe.
And back to Pecos for a moment... PecosGeorge, I see that you refer to a New Testament book which meantions a Temple in heaven containing "the Ark of his testament" in Rev. 11:15-19, yet according to another part of the Scriptures, the Hebrew tabernacle and its funirture were merely replicals of those in heaven: Revelation: 8:1 "Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;" 8:2 "A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man." 8:3 "For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore [it is] of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer." 8:4 "For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:" 8:5 "Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, [that] thou make all things according to the pattern showed to thee in the mount." 9:23 "It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these." 9:24 "For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:" The earthly sanctuary was patterned after the heavenly sanctuary. There is the heavenly original and the earthly coppy. Because the heavnly Ark has always bee in heaven, the earthly Ark has no reason to be there. Otherwise are you proposing that there are "two" Ark of the Covenants in Heaven? This wouldn't make any sense.
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