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Member (Idle past 1129 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Which Version of the Bible is the Word of God? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Nighttrain Member (Idle past 4286 days) Posts: 1512 From: brisbane,australia Joined: |
It does not matter which person says they are right. Of course we all say we are right - who would be dumb enough to defend a position we new was false, unless we had an agenda? In fact, an outsider can not tell one from another (wolf in sheep's clothing or the real sheep so to speak). It is, however, completely logical to report that the Creator can and does tell the Truth to those who are interested. No one can argue with the statement that an answer from the Expert is the best answer. The good news is that you do not have to believe me or anyone else. You can know for yourself. Many wars have been fought and millions died, all insisting they were on a 'mission from God'. They all 'knew'. Major schisms in Christendom were fueled by 'an answer from the Expert'. Who were the outsiders and insiders?So, I think we can put this approach to bed.
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Peg Member (Idle past 5222 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
no, the translation is also literal, except that it is as literal as possible in the language it is being translated into. So if the greek verse is talking about walking down a long stretch of road, the literal translation is also relaying the message of walking down a long stretch of road.
thats what a literal translation is. It doesnt mean 'word for word'...because that would be very difficult to read due to the differences in grammer the verse still needs to be translated into readable english, but the context and subject is as close as possible to the original.
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anglagard Member (Idle past 1129 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
As best I can tell, you are among the advocates of a literal interpretation of the Bible over all other human testimony, empirical knowledge gained through science, and each and every other interpretation of any religious text including both other sects of Christianity and all other religions.
So it should be easy to tell us all which exact Bible translation is literally the word of God. Buzsaw could do it, why can't you? Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza
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Nighttrain Member (Idle past 4286 days) Posts: 1512 From: brisbane,australia Joined: |
the verse still needs to be translated into readable english, but the context and subject is as close as possible to the original. Hi, Peg, but that is precisely the problem. We don`t have the originals (known as autographs), so we have nothing to compare. Take the ending of Mark, for example. We have four ways to close. Which one follows the autograph? Do we:a. Follow the oldest? b. Follow the most mentioned in surviving manuscripts? c. Follow only Greek MS as Mark wrote in Greek? d. Follow any references in Matt or Luke as they were copyists of Mark? e. None of the above, but go with a gut feeling, a.k.a. guidance of the HS? Edited by Nighttrain, : Tidied up ?
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Peg Member (Idle past 5222 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
all bibles in their original languages are the word of God
all bibles that have been translated correctly are the word of God I would even go so far as to say that all bible translations are the word of God. Unfortunately, some of them are just badly translated.
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Peg Member (Idle past 5222 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Hi Nightrain,
there are so many very old manuscripts in existence, that you can be 100% confident that what we have today is as authentic as what the 1st century christians were reading. the long and short conclusions of mark is evidence of how well documented the bible is. Those two conclusions are not to be considered as authentic because they are not found in some of the key ancient manuscripts. Of course we dont have any original writings anymore, but what we do have are copies of the originals...some manuscripts date back to the 1st century and so of course we have some very old specimens with which to keep as templates of all of todays translations.
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Nighttrain Member (Idle past 4286 days) Posts: 1512 From: brisbane,australia Joined: |
the long and short conclusions of mark is evidence of how well documented the bible is. Those two conclusions are not to be considered as authentic because they are not found in some of the key ancient manuscripts.
Hi, Peg, care to put a name to those 'key ancient manuscripts'?
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Peg Member (Idle past 5222 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
one would be the Codex Sinaiticus another is the Codex Vaticanus No.1209. both of these date back to the 4th century and neither of them have the two conclusions in them.
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Brian Member (Idle past 5252 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
some manuscripts date back to the 1st century Name one.
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bluescat48 Member (Idle past 4482 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: |
all bibles in their original languages are the word of God all bibles that have been translated correctly are the word of God I would even go so far as to say that all bible translations are the word of God. Unfortunately, some of them are just badly translated. How do you come to the conclusion that any translation or that even the original writings are the word of God? These are the words of men who wrote on what they saw, felt etc. They were originally told through word of mouth and only much later written down as the books now called the bible. There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
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Peg Member (Idle past 5222 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
one is to be found in the collection of the Fouad Papyri inventory number 266, in Cairo's egyption papyrus society, containing portions of the second half of Deuteronomy. It is dated 1st century.
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Peg Member (Idle past 5222 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
hi bluescat
there are a few things that show its not merely man's words prophecy, and there are many very accurate prophecies that have come true. And the writers of prophecy even admitted they did not know what they were writing. eg. Daniel's writings show that he had no idea what the 'wild beast' prophecies were about. The truthfulness of the writers - they spoke openly about their own sins and their failings. Even Moses was punished by God and forbidden to see the promised land. Do you really think that if he was creating a new religion he would tell everyone how his God punished him? Leaders of nations dont usually do that. Laws - laws that man cannot enforce such as 'covetousness'- Its one of the 10 commandments, 'thou shalt not desire anything of your fellowmans' . Do you really believe that a man would invent a law that in unenforceable? And how could anyone know if someone was coveting their fellow mans possesions? How could a person be judged on such a law?
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bluescat48 Member (Idle past 4482 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: |
prophecy, and there are many very accurate prophecies that have come true. And the writers of prophecy even admitted they did not know what they were writing. eg. Daniel's writings show that he had no idea what the 'wild beast' prophecies were about. There is no evidence as to when or by who such prophesies were written not any evidence the the supposed prophesies were in fact fulfilled.
The truthfulness of the writers - they spoke openly about their own sins and their failings. Even Moses was punished by God and forbidden to see the promised land. Do you really think that if he was creating a new religion he would tell everyone how his God punished him? Leaders of nations dont usually do that. We do not know who actually wrote these passages therefore we do not know whether what was said by whomever was really stated.
Laws - laws that man cannot enforce such as 'covetousness'- Its one of the 10 commandments, 'thou shalt not desire anything of your fellowmans' . Do you really believe that a man would invent a law that in unenforceable? And how could anyone know if someone was coveting their fellow mans possesions? How could a person be judged on such a law? The 10 commandments weren't the first set of laws. There are other similar codes throughout the Mesopotamian/Canaanite areas. The So-called "Law," was set down by Levite Priests in the book of Leviticus. Whether this is even correct is subject to speculation. There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
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bluescat48 Member (Idle past 4482 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: |
It is dated 1st century. You didn't state whether that was C.E. or B. C. E. but in either case that is over 1000 years after the alleged stories in Deuteronomy were allegedly written. There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
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Nighttrain Member (Idle past 4286 days) Posts: 1512 From: brisbane,australia Joined: |
one would be the Codex Sinaiticus another is the Codex Vaticanus No.1209. both of these date back to the 4th century and neither of them have the two conclusions in them. But, but, but, Vaticanus(B) and Sinaiticus (aleph)don`t agree with each other.And when you look at their provenance, we have no records of their history before 1492 for B and c. 1850 for Sinaiticus. Who knows who was responsible for their compilation or where? Guesswork seems to be the standard for possible early manuscripts, while paleography sweeps with a wide broom.
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