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Author Topic:   Why do Christians make God out to be dumb?
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 218 of 259 (352860)
09-28-2006 2:10 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Taz
09-28-2006 1:56 PM


Re: Contradiction
It's not just that. The Isrealites were ordered, supposedly by god, to commit genocide on a horrendous level through biblical history. Men and women were slaughtered, virgin girls were raped, innocent children murdered, and even the most innocent of the innocents (the cattles) weren't spared
Are you suggesting that these actions were morally wrong?
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein. See Message 222
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Off Topic Warning

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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 224 of 259 (353135)
09-29-2006 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by The Revenge of Reason
01-30-2004 11:11 AM


The question is, why would God do this? Why would he need to die on the cross to convince himself to absolve
I guess your point here is that if God was going to let us off, why did He not do so? Why the sacrifice? The idea makes a little more sense if one thinks of it as a debt that has to be paid.
One might theorize that letting us off (not paying the debt) would involve a contradiction of His nature, like making a round square.

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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 226 of 259 (353145)
09-29-2006 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 225 by ringo
09-29-2006 1:55 PM


Who owes the debt? And to whom is it owed?
(And while we're at it, what is the "substance" of the debt - i.e. what is owed?)
Good questions. I guess we could say that in one sense it is like a debt, a moral debt, which must be paid. One pays a moral debt by sacrificing something. In another sense it could be called a poison that has entered into the spiritual blood of mankind which has to be gotten rid of. Adam and Eve are the root and the poison has spread through the entire family tree. The debt is owed to Nature. There's a poison in Nature.
It's remindful of a Shakespearian tragedy in which something is rotten in the state of Denmark and so the tragic machinery is set ineluctably in motion, unstoppable until there is once again a balance in Nature through sacrifice.
God's Nature is such that it's a contradiction for mankind to be let off without the debt being paid. The structure of the universe is moral.
Thinking about it further, I think "poison" makes more sense than "debt."
Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.

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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 229 of 259 (353156)
09-29-2006 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by nwr
09-29-2006 2:46 PM


The biblical text comes from an earlier era, a time when the natural way of dealing with a problem was to make a sacrifice to the gods. So the idea of a sacrifice presumably made sense to people of that era.
This idea runs all through the Bible.
It is the fundamentalist Christians who reveal themselves to be dumb, by virtue of the way they keep trying to hold onto that antiquated story line.
Yes, well, what I object to among the liberals is their trying to read into the Bible modern ideas which are not there and to slur over those ancient ideas that are there. I object to bogus interpretations of this nature. But this point is off-topic.
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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 235 of 259 (353257)
09-29-2006 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 231 by Taz
09-29-2006 3:20 PM


It's not morals or values. It's just stupid.
If it's that stupid, I don't know why the liberal Christians keep wanting to re-interpret it. You would think they would just ignore it.

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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 236 of 259 (353258)
09-29-2006 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by Dan Carroll
09-29-2006 3:38 PM


You don't understand Hamlet
I think I've got a good handle on Shakespearian tragedy. However, the view I was setting forth is traditional (A. C. Bradley).

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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 237 of 259 (353259)
09-29-2006 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by jar
09-29-2006 3:11 PM


Re: The believe at the time ...
was that atonement was an ongoing task, one that should go one continuously but that takes on special meaning coming up right now. We are about to enter Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement. One thing that is clear is that atonement is NOT something that can be done through a third party. It is what you do, the personal acknowledgement of your own failings, the personal effort you make at reconciliation, that is important. Yom Kippur is the day when you need to stop, to take stock of YOUR relationship with others and with GOD.
I was rather shocked to find out recently that you think the Bible was inspired by God.
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