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Author | Topic: Why do Christians make God out to be dumb? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
Uh...okay. I'm not sure I can make it any clearer than that. I'm not asking you to make it clearer. I'm asking you to back it up. That's where the "by whom" comes in. Jeez, you're the one trying to read the sentence "I create evil" and say "that doesn't mean he creates evil". Is supporting such a statement so much to ask? This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 10-01-2004 05:34 PM "If I had to write ten jokes about potholders, I don't think I could do it. But I could write ten jokes about Catholicism in the next twenty minutes. I guess I'm drawn to religion because I can be provocative without harming something people really care about, like their cars." -George Meyer, Simpsons writer
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cduben Inactive Member |
Rrgh. This is taxing on my sanity.
Don't you understand what I'm saying? The word "evil" had a much broader meaning 400 years ago than it does now. The KJV translation, which you used, uses the word "evil", which was correct in that time. But all of the modern translations use a word that is more accurate in today's English language. There's no error anywhere in this. From whence cometh that evil smell?
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1494 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Don't you understand what I'm saying? Um, he understands you. He just doesn't believe you. The recommended course of action, at that point, is to support your argument with sources, not repeat your claims.
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cduben Inactive Member |
The recommended course of action, at that point, is to support your argument with sources, not repeat your claims.
So what more is this guy asking for? Well, anyway, I hope portmaster1000 has got an adequate answer to his original question by now.
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AdminNosy Administrator Posts: 4754 From: Vancouver, BC, Canada Joined: |
He is asking for something other than your say so.
From what source do you get the meanings of "evil" in the time of the KJV? In a quick scan of the last few pages all I saw was your say so. If someone gets picky you are supposed to back up what you assert. Even if they are very picky indeed.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1494 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
So what more is this guy asking for? Your source.
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cduben Inactive Member |
OK, here we go. I've listed some key Bible verses in which the word "evil" is used to mean something other than ethically wrong.
Genesis 37:2 writes: These are the generations of Jacob. Joseph, being seventeen years old, was feeding the flock with his brethren; and the lad was with the sons of Bilhah, and with the sons of Zilpah, his father's wives: and Joseph brought unto his father their evil report. Genesis 44:34 writes: For how shall I go up to my father, and the lad be not with me? lest peradventure I see the evil that shall come on my father. Genesis 47:9 writes: And Jacob said unto Pharaoh, The days of the years of my pilgrimage are an hundred and thirty years: few and evil have the days of the years of my life been, and have not attained unto the days of the years of the life of my fathers in the days of their pilgrimage. Numbers 20:5 writes: And wherefore have ye made us to come up out of Egypt, to bring us in unto this evil place? it is no place of seed, or of figs, or of vines, or of pomegranates; neither is there any water to drink. Deuteronomy 7:15 writes: And the LORD will take away from thee all sickness, and will put none of the evil diseases of Egypt, which thou knowest, upon thee; but will lay them upon all them that hate thee. Deuteronomy 17:1 writes: Thou shalt not sacrifice unto the LORD thy God any bullock, or sheep, wherein is blemish, or any evilfavouredness: for that is an abomination unto the LORD thy God. Deuteronomy 31:17 writes: Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us? All from the King James Version.
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Amlodhi Inactive Member |
Hello all,
I hadn't previously been following this thread, but there is no question that cduben is correct in his assessment of the term translated as "evil" in Isaiah 45:7 The Hebrew term is רע (ra) and it has a wide range of applications. Note especially that in Isaiah 45:7 it is used as the antithesis to "peace". Here then, the term is a noun used in the sense of distress, injury and/or calamity.
quote: Amlodhi This message has been edited by Amlodhi, 10-02-2004 01:15 AM
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doctrbill Member (Idle past 2792 days) Posts: 1174 From: Eugene, Oregon, USA Joined: |
cduben writes: God did not bring evil into the world. Does God have competition? Who could compete with an all powerful God? Who could create but the creator. Is there another creator? A creator of evil?
When God created Adam, he gave him the choice to do right or wrong. I don't think so ... I believe he said, "Don't eat that fruit, Boy; It isn't Kosher." Freedom of choice would be like: "Lochs and Bagels? OR Ham and Cheese?" What God said was: "My way or the Highway." Besides Adam didn't know good from evil until after he had eaten the fruit, so how could he make an intelligent choice beforehand?
Yes, God could have not put the forbidden tree in the garden. But then Adam would have nothing to resist; nothing to win against. In other words: God tempted Adam to sin; placed temptation in Adam's way. Too bad Adam hadn't heard about that prayer: Lead us not into temptation. You think God would've left the tree out of the garden if Adam had prayed that prayer? Wouldn't that be nice? No temptations. No difficult decisions. No trick questions. Just a simple, sunny, existence in the garden with your naked girlfriend. db
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portmaster1000 Inactive Member |
cduben writes: Well, anyway, I hope portmaster1000 has got an adequate answer to his original question by now. ...I'm still waiting for a response to message 187 from you. thanxPM1K
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
Thank you, Amlodhi. For future reference, Cduben, this is the kind of support I was looking for. So we know that God creates distress, misery, injury, calamity, or possibly evil itself. One or more of those five.
Of course, the question we are left with is: given the premise that the Bible is a divinely inspired inerrant document, why would God allow a vague translation from Hebrew, with many possible meanings, that would not remain accurate for even so short a time as 400 years? One would assume that God sees the big picture, and would want an accurate message that would last through to the end times. (Edited for little grammatical futzes. Monday morning, you know.) This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 10-04-2004 09:52 AM "If I had to write ten jokes about potholders, I don't think I could do it. But I could write ten jokes about Catholicism in the next twenty minutes. I guess I'm drawn to religion because I can be provocative without harming something people really care about, like their cars." -George Meyer, Simpsons writer
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Charles Munroe Member (Idle past 3662 days) Posts: 40 From: Simi Valley, CA USA Joined: |
If God inspired the Bible, and laid down all the laws therein, then explain the revolting behavior required by a strict observance of Leviticus 20. Pay particular attention to the punishment of death for the "sin" of adultry as prescrivbed by Leviticus and how Jesus handles adultery by simply telling the woman "Go and sin no more".
The Old Testament depicts a God that at times is not only incompetent but sadistic and brutal; certainly not a God of a loving nature.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
It's only a problem for those who insist on a literal reading of the bible.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Charles Munroe Member (Idle past 3662 days) Posts: 40 From: Simi Valley, CA USA Joined: |
Do you have another interpretation? It seems straight forward that anyone caught in adultry is to be put to death. The same goes for homosexuals. So how come if this is the word of God jews in Israel aren't stoning people to death for adultry and homosexual behavior. Could be that we have advanced beyond the crudeness of the Old Testament which appears to be written my humans that certainly aren't inspired by God.
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almeyda Inactive Member |
quote: That is true. When man is born he has a desire to live without an authority figure. Also he enjoys being independent. When he decides to put God out of his life, he is already living in sin. We have no choice but to bow-down to God, because he made us, thus owns us(Matthew 10:28). Humanistic/athiestic philosophy is the result of sin. Because it encourages mankind to reject God and the existence of a God, because they believe man is in charge of destiny. This form of thinking can seem intelligent, but not if God DOES exists.
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