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Author Topic:   Why do Christians make God out to be dumb?
jar
Member
Posts: 32506
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 211 of 259 (148647)
10-09-2004 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by Charles Munroe
10-09-2004 5:35 AM


Re: Contradiction
Sure. I have the interpretation that the Bible was written by mere humans with the knowledge, limitations and point of view of their time.

The Bible, in this case actually the Torah (the Laws) were just that, the Laws of a period. They change, as all laws do, as we move through the times of the Bible.

Could be that we have advanced beyond the crudeness of the Old Testament which appears to be written my humans that certainly aren't inspired by God.

While I happen to believe the Bible was inspired by GOD, it is also obvious that it was written by men (both specificly and genericly) and so reflects the period and beliefs when written.

But we have not moved all that far from stoning homosexuals. It's too bad.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Charles Munroe, posted 10-09-2004 5:35 AM Charles Munroe has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by Charles Munroe, posted 10-09-2004 3:54 PM jar has responded

Charles Munroe
Member (Idle past 2141 days)
Posts: 40
From: Simi Valley, CA USA
Joined: 09-07-2003


Message 212 of 259 (148687)
10-09-2004 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by jar
10-09-2004 10:26 AM


Re: Contradiction
If God inspired the writers of the Old Testament then God did a poor job of inspiring. Killing people for acts that should be handled in a civil manner, allowing slavery, destroying whole populations, including children, is not my idea of a benevolent God but of a psychopatic personallity.
If the entire Bible is inspired by God then God obviously never took a course in Composition 101. God requires some 1,217 pages to explain what could be writen on a postcard.
It has never ceased to amaze me what people are willing to believe and consider the word of God. Place any of the statements made in Leviticus 20 in any other context and people would be appalled. Religion should show humankind how to live justly and in harmony with one another and not concern itsself with where we came from (Creationism) but where we are going. It should portray God as successful and not the miserable failure of the Bible who craves attention, devotion and sacrifice. A God who would have taught Adam and Eve the difference between good and evil and given them the teachings of Jesus day one and not some 4,000 years later.
The God of the Old Testament is a fabrication of primative minds and can't begin to compare with the sayings of Jesus. If one calls himself or herself a Christian then it behoves them to concentrate on the New Testament, and in particular the words of Jesus, rather than the rambling violence laden nonsense of the Old Testament.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by jar, posted 10-09-2004 10:26 AM jar has responded

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 Message 213 by jar, posted 10-09-2004 8:32 PM Charles Munroe has responded

jar
Member
Posts: 32506
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 213 of 259 (148731)
10-09-2004 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by Charles Munroe
10-09-2004 3:54 PM


Re: Contradiction
Charles, if you were living in 2000 BC, would they seem strange or harsh? You are looking through today's eyes, and not through the eyes of the authors.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Charles Munroe
Member (Idle past 2141 days)
Posts: 40
From: Simi Valley, CA USA
Joined: 09-07-2003


Message 214 of 259 (148742)
10-09-2004 10:59 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by jar
10-09-2004 8:32 PM


Re: Contradiction
Exactly. What you see is written by man, not God. Killing and slavery are not acceptable in any age. There is nothing in the Old Testament that is worth holding as holy. The New Testament works just fine without the embarassment of the Old Testament.
Placing the ramblings of the Old Testament on the same level as the sayings of Jesus is ridiculous and the mark of someone that really doesn't understand Jesus and what he was about.

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Muhd
Inactive Member


Message 215 of 259 (347466)
09-08-2006 1:00 AM
Reply to: Message 214 by Charles Munroe
10-09-2004 10:59 PM


Re: Contradiction
You obviously don't have a good understanding of the history surrounding those events and decrees in the Bible so maybe you should give it the benefit of the doubt until you do.

Not saying that I necessarily understand that era or what God was trying to accomplish in that era, but I will say that if we are talking about the killing of the Amalekites - the Amalekites were highly sinful people and would have done worse to the Isrealites had they the opportunity.

And remember, if God really said it, than it is good. But it always helps to know the context.

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SK
Inactive Member


Message 216 of 259 (352848)
09-28-2006 1:43 PM


quote:
Killing people for acts that should be handled in a civil manner, allowing slavery, destroying whole populations, including children, is not my idea of a benevolent God but of a psychopatic personallity.

God made a pact with Israel as his chosen ppl. Israel unfortunately drifted away from their promise to god about swearing to follow his direction. God sent profets to warn israel many times, time and time again even though israel witnessed many miracles as proof that he was indeed trying to help them, like liberate them from egypt, get water in the desert via a big rock and giving them the promised land. However, again, Israel started to drift of the comandments and other instructions from moses along with other profets, they had pleny of warning. some listened and got saved, some didnt and got death. Instruction, warning(lots of time) and finally the consequences...how is that not civil?

quote:
If the entire Bible is inspired by God then God obviously never took a course in Composition 101. God requires some 1,217 pages to explain what could be writen on a postcard.
A God who would have taught Adam and Eve the difference between good and evil and given them the teachings of Jesus day one and not some 4,000 years later.

adam and eve were perfect they had nothing bringing them down ...basically the scale was exactly even neither leaning towards darkness or goodness, the reason why jesus had to come is because adam and eve chose to believe some stranger(snake) over god, thus making offspring always tilt towards darkness(sin). His teachings were so we can make an effort to the goodness using his teachings, to avoid this "disease" we have of sinning.

quote:
The God of the Old Testament is a fabrication of primative minds and can't begin to compare with the sayings of Jesus.

quote:
Exactly. What you see is written by man, not God. Killing and slavery are not acceptable in any age. There is nothing in the Old Testament that is worth holding as holy. The New Testament works just fine without the embarassment of the Old Testament.
Placing the ramblings of the Old Testament on the same level as the sayings of Jesus is ridiculous and the mark of someone that really doesn't understand Jesus and what he was about.

its funny though, that jesus' teachings are majorly based on the old testament, theres only been updates ...but mostly jesus referenced many moses teachings( old testament) as well as other profets

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Taz
Member (Idle past 1798 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 217 of 259 (352853)
09-28-2006 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by Muhd
09-08-2006 1:00 AM


Re: Contradiction
Muhd writes:

Not saying that I necessarily understand that era or what God was trying to accomplish in that era, but I will say that if we are talking about the killing of the Amalekites...


It's not just that. The Isrealites were ordered, supposedly by god, to commit genocide on a horrendous level through biblical history. Men and women were slaughtered, virgin girls were raped, innocent children murdered, and even the most innocent of the innocents (the cattles) weren't spared.

Ok, so these were "sinful" people. I take it that since my neighbor isn't a christian I should go over and kill his 2 year old daughter?

People like you have a sad way of interpreting god's words.

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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 218 of 259 (352860)
09-28-2006 2:10 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Taz
09-28-2006 1:56 PM


Re: Contradiction
It's not just that. The Isrealites were ordered, supposedly by god, to commit genocide on a horrendous level through biblical history. Men and women were slaughtered, virgin girls were raped, innocent children murdered, and even the most innocent of the innocents (the cattles) weren't spared

Are you suggesting that these actions were morally wrong?

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RickJB
Member (Idle past 3497 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 219 of 259 (352894)
09-28-2006 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by burntdaisy622
01-31-2004 3:49 AM


[deleted - reply to very old post]

Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.


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Taz
Member (Idle past 1798 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 220 of 259 (352915)
09-28-2006 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by robinrohan
09-28-2006 2:10 PM


Re: Contradiction
robinhood writes:

Are you suggesting that these actions were morally wrong?


It really depends. Socrates once asked "is an action morally right because god says so or does god say so because it is morally right?"

ALL christians that I have talked to said that it is right because god says so. Therefore, I have to assume that my atheistic morality is far superior to god's.

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SK
Inactive Member


Message 221 of 259 (352929)
09-28-2006 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by Taz
09-28-2006 5:00 PM


Re: Contradiction
gasby writes:

ALL christians that I have talked to said that it is right because god says so. Therefore, I have to assume that my atheistic morality is far superior to god's.

then again where this morals come from?

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AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 222 of 259 (352982)
09-28-2006 8:04 PM


Off Topic Warning
I don't see that this thread has been on topic since its revival. I don't even see that the comments are related.

Please read Message 1 for a reminder as to what this topic is about and get back to the topic.

This brings me to the point of this thread, please list any examples that you have of the Bible making God (or Moses or whoever) out to look unreasonably dumb.

Please direct any comments concerning this Admin msg to the Moderation Thread.
Any response in this thread will receive a 24 hour timeout.

Thank you Purple


Legend
Member (Idle past 3513 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 223 of 259 (353079)
09-29-2006 9:06 AM


Back on topic
quote:
This brings me to the point of this thread, please list any examples that you have of the Bible making God (or Moses or whoever) out to look unreasonably dumb.

Here's another one for you: Jesus and the Fig tree ( Matt 21:17-22, Mark 11:12-14 ) .

In a nutshell, Jesus goes to pick up some figs (in the wrong season) and when he doesn't find any (naturally) he gets pissed off and curses the fig tree!

That makes Jesus look like an ignorant, spiteful dork.

But that's just the Biblical view!


"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 224 of 259 (353135)
09-29-2006 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by The Revenge of Reason
01-30-2004 11:11 AM


The question is, why would God do this? Why would he need to die on the cross to convince himself to absolve

I guess your point here is that if God was going to let us off, why did He not do so? Why the sacrifice? The idea makes a little more sense if one thinks of it as a debt that has to be paid.

One might theorize that letting us off (not paying the debt) would involve a contradiction of His nature, like making a round square.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by ringo, posted 09-29-2006 1:55 PM robinrohan has responded

ringo
Member
Posts: 18098
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 225 of 259 (353141)
09-29-2006 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by robinrohan
09-29-2006 1:39 PM


robinrohan writes:

Why the sacrifice? The idea makes a little more sense if one thinks of it as a debt that has to be paid.

Who owes the debt? And to whom is it owed?
(And while we're at it, what is the "substance" of the debt - i.e. what is owed?)


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This message is a reply to:
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