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Author Topic:   Why do Christians make God out to be dumb?
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 241 of 259 (353289)
09-30-2006 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by nwr
09-30-2006 12:40 PM


Re: The believe at the time ...
I'm past being surprised at anything jar says, but it is remarkable that someone who apparently treats the Bible as a book of lies except for the resurrection could call it inspired.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by nwr, posted 09-30-2006 12:40 PM nwr has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 243 by nwr, posted 09-30-2006 2:57 PM Faith has responded

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 242 of 259 (353290)
09-30-2006 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by The Revenge of Reason
01-30-2004 11:11 AM


Oh the glorious dumbness of God
jar writes:

There are though many Christians that make God appear both dumb and cruel. The idea that Jesus died as a condition of GOD forgiving Man and then making it selective and conditional so that the sacrifice only has meaning if some other condition is satisfied is a good example. It makes God look silly, childish and petty.

1Cr 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1Cr 1:20 Where [is] the wise? where [is] the scribe? where [is] the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

1Cr 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

1Cr 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

1Cr 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 5810
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 243 of 259 (353291)
09-30-2006 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 241 by Faith
09-30-2006 2:45 PM


Re: The believe at the time ...
I don't think jar considers it a book of lies. My impression is that he does not think it was intended to be taken as literal truth, or as accurate historical reports.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by Faith, posted 09-30-2006 2:45 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by Faith, posted 09-30-2006 2:59 PM nwr has responded
 Message 245 by jar, posted 09-30-2006 3:36 PM nwr has acknowledged this reply

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 244 of 259 (353292)
09-30-2006 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by nwr
09-30-2006 2:57 PM


Re: The believe at the time ...
I don't think jar considers it a book of lies. My impression is that he does not think it was intended to be taken as literal truth, or as accurate historical reports.

Which means lies really. Unless you're into it all depending on what the meaning of is is.


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 Message 243 by nwr, posted 09-30-2006 2:57 PM nwr has responded

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 Message 247 by nwr, posted 09-30-2006 4:25 PM Faith has responded

jar
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Posts: 33445
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 245 of 259 (353294)
09-30-2006 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by nwr
09-30-2006 2:57 PM


Re: The believe at the time ...
I don't think jar considers it a book of lies.

Of course I don't consider it a book of lies, rather one that transmits major and important truths and lessons. But again, many Christians make not just God seem studid and petty, but by making silly statements like "I'm past being surprised at anything jar says, but it is remarkable that someone who apparently treats the Bible as a book of lies except for the resurrection could call it inspired." make themselves and similar Christians look stupid as well. It is sad, pathetic and pitiful and one can only feel sorry for such people.

GOD is awesome and wondrous, and those Christians that work so hard to make God look like a bling-bling pimp daddy or that insist on denying the very evidence of the the Universe GOD created worship the Bible instead of GOD.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 3137 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 246 of 259 (353297)
09-30-2006 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by Faith
09-30-2006 2:59 PM


Re: The believe at the time ...
Which means lies really. Unless you're into it all depending on what the meaning of is is.

this is wrong on so many levels, your black and white blinders make you blind to the fact that to have spiritual truth something doesn't need to be historical.
if you think something has to be literal truth, then you have lost all meaning to the bible and half of what jesus SAID, being fables to explain spirtual truth

your inconsistency scares me


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nwr
Member
Posts: 5810
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 247 of 259 (353299)
09-30-2006 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by Faith
09-30-2006 2:59 PM


Re: The believe at the time ...
Which means lies really. Unless you're into it all depending on what the meaning of is is.

The question of what the meaning of "is" is, actually is a very serious question. The right wing idealogues who ridiculed it only demonstrated their own ignorance of language and its complexities.

Your assertion that if it is not literal truth, it is lies -- well that's wrong. That is opinion that you are imposing yourself.

If what is not truth is lies, then Jesus was a liar. After all, he told parables.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by Faith, posted 09-30-2006 2:59 PM Faith has responded

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 Message 248 by Faith, posted 09-30-2006 4:32 PM nwr has responded

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 248 of 259 (353300)
09-30-2006 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 247 by nwr
09-30-2006 4:25 PM


Re: The believe at the time ...
Your assertion that if it is not literal truth, it is lies -- well that's wrong. That is opinion that you are imposing yourself.

I'm in good company then. So many illustrious Christians of the past and present and I are all wrong together then.

Jesus told parables, but the Bible isn't parables otherwise, which ought to be obvious.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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 Message 247 by nwr, posted 09-30-2006 4:25 PM nwr has responded

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 Message 250 by nwr, posted 09-30-2006 5:26 PM Faith has responded

ringo
Member
Posts: 19262
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 249 of 259 (353301)
09-30-2006 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 248 by Faith
09-30-2006 4:32 PM


Re: The believe at the time ...
Faith writes:

Jesus told parables, but the Bible isn't parables otherwise, which ought to be obvious.

It's pretty obvious that the talking-snake story isn't literal history. :D


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by Faith, posted 09-30-2006 4:32 PM Faith has not yet responded

nwr
Member
Posts: 5810
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 250 of 259 (353305)
09-30-2006 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 248 by Faith
09-30-2006 4:32 PM


Re: The believe at the time ...
So many illustrious Christians of the past and present and I are all wrong together then.

'fraid so.

Jesus told parables, but the Bible isn't parables otherwise, which ought to be obvious.

It isn't literal history, either. Part is poetry, part is story, part is metaphor, part is symbolic fantasy.

One should read it, as one should read any literature, in accordance with the principle of charity.


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 Message 248 by Faith, posted 09-30-2006 4:32 PM Faith has responded

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 Message 251 by Faith, posted 09-30-2006 5:36 PM nwr has acknowledged this reply

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 251 of 259 (353306)
09-30-2006 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by nwr
09-30-2006 5:26 PM


Re: The believe at the time ...
It isn't literal history, either. Part is poetry, part is story, part is metaphor, part is symbolic fantasy.

NONE of it is symbolic fantasy -- symbolic yes, lots of it is that, some of it hidden from most interpreters, but fantasy, no. MOST of it is literal history. The psalms and wisdom literature are easily identified as such. The only parts that are stories are where somebody is clearly telling a story; if it has no identified teller it is not a parable or a story. Metaphor abounds, but any kid can tell the difference between reality statements and metaphor unless liberals mess with his mind.

One should read it, as one should read any literature, in accordance with the principle of charity.

Absolutely. And that's how we evangelicals read it, according to its obvious intentions.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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 Message 250 by nwr, posted 09-30-2006 5:26 PM nwr has acknowledged this reply

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 Message 253 by iceage, posted 10-01-2006 1:09 AM Faith has responded

ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 3137 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 252 of 259 (353378)
10-01-2006 12:50 AM
Reply to: Message 251 by Faith
09-30-2006 5:36 PM


Re: The believe at the time ...
NONE of it is symbolic fantasy -- symbolic yes, lots of it is that, some of it hidden from most interpreters, but fantasy, no. MOST of it is literal history. The psalms and wisdom literature are easily identified as such. The only parts that are stories are where somebody is clearly telling a story; if it has no identified teller it is not a parable or a story. Metaphor abounds, but any kid can tell the difference between reality statements and metaphor unless liberals mess with his mind.

so samson killed 3 thousand people with an asses jawbone then?
all of the psalms is peotry, its considered peotry by every historian who ever lived, even the conservitive ones

Absolutely. And that's how we evangelicals read it, according to its obvious intentions.

yes as an understanding of god, not a history book.. oh wait.. no you don't, silly me

the thing is the jews wrote it as history, because thats what they considered history, but its not correct history, of course it wouldn't be written with disclaimers saying "this really didn't happen, it was all just made up"
but it still doesn't mean its literal history


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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4941 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 253 of 259 (353379)
10-01-2006 1:09 AM
Reply to: Message 251 by Faith
09-30-2006 5:36 PM


Re: The believe at the time ...
Are you for real? I am beginning to wonder.

Then you must acknowledge the "literal" meaning in this inspired blessed psalm:

quote:

37:9 How blessed will be the one who grabs your babies and smashes them on a rock!

This sounds more like bad hip-hop lyrics than god inspired prose.

Or maybe you can explain the literal meaning behind this notable "scripture" from Numbers.

quote:

31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.



This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by Faith, posted 09-30-2006 5:36 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by Faith, posted 10-01-2006 1:27 AM iceage has responded

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 254 of 259 (353381)
10-01-2006 1:27 AM
Reply to: Message 253 by iceage
10-01-2006 1:09 AM


I meant what I said
I guess you're one of those who just comb the scriptures for the scary harsh statements so you can complain about them, without bothering about context, getting a picture of the whole. Funny you think your knee-jerk take on it means anything in the context of 2000 or even 3000 years of millions of people who really understand it. Yes, God said those things, ordered those actions. They are incredibly harsh, they make a person cringe at the harshness. But they ought to tell you something about the fate of unrepentant sinners in the hands of God. This is serious stuff here.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4941 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 255 of 259 (353388)
10-01-2006 1:55 AM
Reply to: Message 254 by Faith
10-01-2006 1:27 AM


Re: I meant what I said
Whoa... context is irrelevant - these are immoral statements. The context of child rape and killing babies are unimportant. You sound like Ted Bundy's defense lawyer telling the jury they need to understand the context.

quote:

But they ought to tell you something about the fate of unrepentant sinners in the hands of God.

No but they are telling about the nature of people who blinding believe these things are from god.

Edited by troxelso, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by Faith, posted 10-01-2006 1:27 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by Faith, posted 10-01-2006 1:57 AM iceage has responded

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