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Author Topic:   GENESIS 22:17 / NOT A PROMISE GIVEN TO THE JEWS
Rei
Member (Idle past 7095 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 256 of 337 (144173)
09-23-2004 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by Cold Foreign Object
09-23-2004 4:25 PM


quote:
quote:
Rei: Funny, because most archaeologists consider Greek culture, most clearly evidenced in the Minoan civilization, as having been taken along when they immigrated from Asia Minor. And seing as the broader greek styles of the aegean civilization originated in Minoan Crete...
I'd most definitely call that "a matter of opinion". What the heck were you thinking when you stated "It is not a matter of opinion"?
The book I cited from by Dr. Gordon proves Greek culture originated from Shemitic biblical descendants via Egypt.
You keep doing this, and it drives me crazy: You pick up on what one outspoken author - who disagrees with the majority of the archaeological community has said - wrote, and then you insist not only that it is true, but that it's not a matter of opinion.
*Of Course* it's a matter of opinion, or otherwise the majority of archaeologists wouldn't be disagreeing. What is hard about this for you to understand? Or are you under the delusion that the majority of archaeologists buy into his tripe, despite the fact that early Minoan art styles are the exact same things you find in Asia Minor at the time?
quote:
19th century scholars assumed Troy was mythical until Schliemann took Homer at face value. Layard's Nineveh digs proved the existence of Nimrud a person also assumed to be mythical. This is history 101 stuff and your tone implies that you are going to feign ignorance or worse - just deny these facts which are embarrassing to the status quo.
And what exactly does this have to do with anything? When people set out to find Troy, they found it. When a thousand times more people set out to find the Exodus, they found nothing, and instead found countless things that argued against it.

"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 09-23-2004 4:25 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 09-23-2004 6:26 PM Rei has replied
 Message 265 by Amlodhi, posted 09-23-2004 6:49 PM Rei has not replied

MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 6435 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 257 of 337 (144177)
09-23-2004 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by Cold Foreign Object
09-23-2004 3:52 PM


Book Publishing First (rest later)
Then you assert my book by Bennett is BI/Covenant Publishing - no it isn't I have the book - you are caught red handed.
WT - can you do me a couple of favors since you have the book :
  • Check if the ISBN number of the book is 0852050038
  • Check if there is a publishing history in your book (specifically a "First Published by " type of entry)
The reason I claim it was published by Covenant Publishing is that the British Library (which claims to keep copies of every book published in Britain, along with lots of other things) says it is. To be strictly accurate they list the publisher as "Covenant Books" and give their address as 6, Buckingham Place, London. You can find numerous references to this being the address of the BWIF/Covenant Publishing at one time (before they moved up to the North of England). At the commercial level Amazon.co.uk list it as being by Covenant Publishing (this is where I got the ISBN number from BTW).
It may be we are both correct in our own countries . For example, I have just found that in the US a company called Artisan Publishers offer it for sale. Given their name they are presumably the publishers of it in the US rather than just a reseller. Books being published by different companies in different countries isn't uncommon.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 09-23-2004 3:52 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by CK, posted 09-23-2004 5:45 PM MangyTiger has replied
 Message 259 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 09-23-2004 5:57 PM MangyTiger has replied

CK
Member (Idle past 4209 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 258 of 337 (144182)
09-23-2004 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by MangyTiger
09-23-2004 5:27 PM


Re: Book Publishing First (rest later)
I've just do a quick check via the university database - that ISBN returns a book called:
Symbols of Our Celto-Saxon Heritage by a WH Bennett?
It says it was published in Jan - 1998.
Is that the book you two are discussing?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by MangyTiger, posted 09-23-2004 5:27 PM MangyTiger has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by MangyTiger, posted 09-23-2004 7:01 PM CK has not replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3129 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 259 of 337 (144187)
09-23-2004 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by MangyTiger
09-23-2004 5:27 PM


Re: Book Publishing First (rest later)
I cannot find a ISBN in the book.
"Symbols of our Celto-Saxon Heritage" by W.H. Bennett (forward by L.G. Pine) [copyright W.H. Bennett 1976] Staples Printers Ltd., The Stanhope Press, Rochester, England.
The above blue box contains everything in the book about the book. I have a hard cover edition.
I don't care if the Third Reich published the book. The content/evidence proves the peoples of Great Britain descend from Israelitish origins.
In lieu of this fact all you can do is comfort yourselves that the source somehow negates the evidence. Theists are the source as are atheists the main sources of evolutionary myths.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by MangyTiger, posted 09-23-2004 5:27 PM MangyTiger has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by MangyTiger, posted 09-23-2004 6:48 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3129 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 260 of 337 (144197)
09-23-2004 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by Rei
09-23-2004 5:20 PM


You keep doing this, and it drives me crazy
Rei:
I perceive this comment is genuine. Please do not get emotional as I often do.
You pick up on what one outspoken author - who disagrees with the majority of the archaeological community has said - wrote, and then you insist not only that it is true, but that it's not a matter of opinion.
*Of Course* it's a matter of opinion, or otherwise the majority of archaeologists wouldn't be disagreeing. What is hard about this for you to understand? Or are you under the delusion that the majority of archaeologists buy into his tripe, despite the fact that early Minoan art styles are the exact same things you find in Asia Minor at the time?
The "majority" is a straw man if you mean by majority that the truth resides in the majority. I could assert the same, that the "majority" say thus and such, while the majority to me are theist sources.
BUT, I agree with your point, that the "majority" do not embrace Dr. Gordon's research.
This does not mean Gordon is wrong it only means that the majority believe something else. In the Bible the majority are wrong 99.99 % of the time.
Gordon answers the question of WHERE the culture of Asia Minor originated from. But like I said, any source which substantiates the Bible is not mainstream because the majority/mainstream DON'T CARE ABOUT THE TRUTH IF IT PROVES THE BIBLE. They don't care because Romans says when God-sense is removed the person WON'T CARE about the things of God.
But Gordon's voluminous research remains: Greek culture originated from Hebrew via Egypt. This unknown fact is also proof for the effects of the invisible Devil - who is claimed to exist by the Bible.
When a thousand times more people set out to find the Exodus, they found nothing
There is more evidence for the Exodus by volume than there is for human evolution, yet no evo will forsake ToE because of the paucity of transitional fossils in existence.
If humans evolved from animals there should be mountains of fossils but in reality we have a foot locker amount of disputed bones which are kept in vaults.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by Rei, posted 09-23-2004 5:20 PM Rei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by Rei, posted 09-23-2004 6:41 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

jar
Member
Posts: 34054
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 261 of 337 (144202)
09-23-2004 6:36 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by MangyTiger
09-23-2004 3:58 PM


Re: Any admins following this ?
Links work. Doesn't matter.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by MangyTiger, posted 09-23-2004 3:58 PM MangyTiger has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 09-23-2004 6:46 PM jar has not replied

Rei
Member (Idle past 7095 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 262 of 337 (144210)
09-23-2004 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 260 by Cold Foreign Object
09-23-2004 6:26 PM


quote:
The "majority" is a straw man if you mean by majority that the truth resides in the majority. I could assert the same, that the "majority" say thus and such, while the majority to me are theist sources.
I didn't just say "the majority" - you truncated me. I said "the majority of archaeologists".
quote:
BUT, I agree with your point, that the "majority" do not embrace Dr. Gordon's research.
This does not mean Gordon is wrong it only means that the majority believe something else
Quite true, indeed. But it means that it is an opinion.
quote:
But Gordon's voluminous research remains: Greek culture originated from Hebrew via Egypt. This unknown fact is also proof for the effects of the invisible Devil - who is claimed to exist by the Bible.
Would you like to discuss some of his claims of evidence?
quote:
, yet no evo will forsake ToE because of the paucity of transitional fossils in existence.
Transitional vertebrate fossils FAQ.
quote:
If humans evolved from animals there should be mountains of fossils
Mountains *are* typically *filled* with fossils in non-granitic/basaltic layers. There *are* mountains of fossils, and in fact, almost every mountain is filled with fossils. Even Mount Everest.
quote:
but in reality we have a foot locker amount of disputed bones which are kept in vaults.
Rick Hedon's group excavated and analyzed 20,000 fossils from one quarry. Don't kid yourself about the number of fossils that have been studied in the world. In 1998, there were about 44,000 geoscientists (of varying types) employed outside of colleges. Now while most of them aren't going to be excavating and categorizing fossils, there still is a huge amount of data that is studied every single year. Consequently, whether intentional or not, you're attacking a straw man.

"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 09-23-2004 6:26 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 09-23-2004 6:59 PM Rei has replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3129 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 263 of 337 (144212)
09-23-2004 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by jar
09-23-2004 6:36 PM


Re: Any admins following this ?
The issue is the 2nd link of the post in question.
I click on it.
It appears.
15 seconds later it disappears before I could finish reading the second sentence.
Why doesn't someone just cut and paste the whole thing and be done with it, but then again that would require trust that the entire text was pasted and not edited.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by jar, posted 09-23-2004 6:36 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by MangyTiger, posted 09-23-2004 6:58 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 6435 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 264 of 337 (144214)
09-23-2004 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 259 by Cold Foreign Object
09-23-2004 5:57 PM


Re: Book Publishing First (rest later)
Hi again WT.
I agree with you that - as I have said on at least two occassions - the source of the book or the beliefs of the author and/or publishers do not mean it is wrong (or right come to that). I only pursued this because of :
Then you assert my book by Bennett is BI/Covenant Publishing - no it isn't I have the book - you are caught red handed.
This is clearly an accusation of bad faith or flat out lying - I was showing that the information I posted was not made up or a lie.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 09-23-2004 5:57 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 270 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 09-23-2004 7:05 PM MangyTiger has replied
 Message 271 by jar, posted 09-23-2004 7:18 PM MangyTiger has replied

Amlodhi
Inactive Member


Message 265 of 337 (144216)
09-23-2004 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by Rei
09-23-2004 5:20 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Rei
You keep doing this, and it drives me crazy: You pick up on what one outspoken author - who disagrees with the majority of the archaeological community has said - wrote, and then you insist not only that it is true, but that it's not a matter of opinion.
Hi Rei,
I'm afraid it's even worse than that. WILLOWTREE says:
quote:
But Gordon's voluminous research remains: Greek culture originated from Hebrew via Egypt. This unknown fact is also proof for the effects of the invisible Devil - who is claimed to exist by the Bible.
This is, tiringly yet again, a willful distortion of Prof. Gordon's thesis. Gordon does not say that the Greek culture originated from the Hebrew.
Disappointingly, WT has been told this repeatedly enough that he should know it by now, and yet he continues to disseminate this false information.
To WT: "Thou shalt not bear false witness."
Why aren't you ashamed? Could it be the effects of the invisible Devil.
Amlodhi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by Rei, posted 09-23-2004 5:20 PM Rei has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 09-23-2004 7:26 PM Amlodhi has not replied

MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 6435 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 266 of 337 (144221)
09-23-2004 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by Cold Foreign Object
09-23-2004 6:46 PM


Re: Any admins following this ?
The reason I haven't copied it is that I am not sure if there are any Copyright implications.
The symptoms you describe sound very similar to what I get. However it doesn't disappear it shrinks down to a small image (looks kind of like a newspaper column) down the right hand side of the screen. If you then click inside this image an icon pops up - if you click in the center of this icon the artice goes back to (and stays) full size.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 09-23-2004 6:46 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 09-23-2004 7:00 PM MangyTiger has not replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3129 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 267 of 337 (144224)
09-23-2004 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 262 by Rei
09-23-2004 6:41 PM


I was talking about human transitionals, which by volume in existence amount to a foot locker full. I have never seen a real one in a museum only plaster cast replicas.
If evolution was true every house would have dozens laying around.
The point is that this paucity is no problem but Israel in Sinai is not given the same benefit = pure hypocrisy.
The Bible says Israel wandered in the Zin for 40 years.
The above evidence is only rejected because it is connected to a larger witness of evidence that evolutionary myths have spoken up for: The non-existence of God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by Rei, posted 09-23-2004 6:41 PM Rei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by Rei, posted 09-23-2004 7:20 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3129 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 268 of 337 (144225)
09-23-2004 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by MangyTiger
09-23-2004 6:58 PM


Re: Any admins following this ?
I will try what you say.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by MangyTiger, posted 09-23-2004 6:58 PM MangyTiger has not replied

MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 6435 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 269 of 337 (144227)
09-23-2004 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 258 by CK
09-23-2004 5:45 PM


Re: Book Publishing First (rest later)
Hello Charles.
Thanks for the help - that is the book in question (or at least a later printing of the 1976 version WT has got).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by CK, posted 09-23-2004 5:45 PM CK has not replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3129 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 270 of 337 (144228)
09-23-2004 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 264 by MangyTiger
09-23-2004 6:48 PM


Re: Book Publishing First (rest later)
Then are you going to distance yourself from asserting my book was published by Covenant or not ?
That is what you said.
I have posted the book's publisher and copyright, what more could be asked ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by MangyTiger, posted 09-23-2004 6:48 PM MangyTiger has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by MangyTiger, posted 09-23-2004 8:28 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

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