quote:Originally posted by nos482: In regards to the Egyptians of today I had meant genetically. From what I understand is that because of Egypt being invaded so many times over recent centuries that the people there now bear very little to those who lived there a few thousand years ago. In other words the original Egyptian "race" is basically extinct.
As I understand it, even during the are we consider classical Egypt the country was a real melting pot of peoples, it being a major power and trade center.
Of course, culturally the egyptians today are nothing like there ancestors.
In regards to the Egyptians of today I had meant genetically. From what I understand is that because of Egypt being invaded so many times over recent centuries that the people there now bear very little to those who lived there a few thousand years ago. In other words the original Egyptian "race" is basically extinct.
** An interesting angle, and one that I would say can be applied to many 'races'.
The thing is, with the Hebrew-Israelite-Jew relationship, there's no way to track their relationship in non-biblical sources. Anyone that asks the question: 'Are the jews the same race as the Hebrews?' would have to have the reply, 'who are the Hebrews'?
An intersting, and I dare say controversal angle, would be to look at the theory that the 'Hebrews' never left Canaan in the first place, or that not all 'Hebrews' did. If this is the case then are Palestinians brought into the equation?
Keith Whitelam has been severly criticised by some scholars for his book 'The Invention of Ancient Israel: The Silencing of Palestinian History'. Keith argues that American and Israeli bible scholars and archaeologists have been so intent on finding 'Ancient Israel' that Palestinian history has essentially been ignored.
Keith proposes that the archaeological surveys in the west bank have been too heaviliy influenced by bible scholars with their obsession with finding Ancient Israel and that this scholarsip has deproved that Palestinians of a land and a past.
There has been some claims of anti Semitism directed at Keith, mostly by scholars who probably realise how accurate Keith is.
So who knows, maybe archaeology will discover that instead of an 'Hebrew-Israelite-Jew' relationship, there might actually be a 'Palestinian (Canaanite)-Israelite-Jew' relationship.
However, I prefer to steer clear of the political side of the discussion as it is getting far to personal, and prefer the archaeological/historical approach to finding the origins of Israel.
Best wishes and thanks for sharing some interesting information.
------------------ Remembering events that never happened is a dangerous thing!
Sometimes sarcasm begets sarcasm. With that in mind, I offer the following observations.......
Originally posted by schrafinator: Depending upon which Gospel you read, Jesus is crucified either before (John) or after (Matthew, Mark, & Luke) Passover. This is hardly consistent.
***With the understanding that you are an ex-adherent to catholicism, an organization that does not exactly encourage a deep and thorough study of the scriptures, and considering that Roman Catholicism is nothing more than a continuation of Babylonian cultic beliefs and that the RC has intermingled these pagan beliefs with very few true Christian teachings, (a claim that I am more than willing to document for you in the "Faith and Belief" forum, at your request), I will overlook your obvious misunderstanding of the scriptures. For the sake of clarification, please do not expect me to turn this into a Bible study for you. If you were at all interested in the Revelational Truths of the Gospel of the Kingdon of God, you would most likely have fled that pagan organization long before you did and quite possibly would be steeped within the Word by now, filled with the ability of spiritual discernment.***
Originally posted by schrafinator: The Koran? The Bahvigad Gita? The I Ching? The Lord of the Rings trilogy could be included if we are just talking about literary works.
***Ok, now you are just trying to make me laugh!***
Originally posted by schrafinator: Wait, let me save you some time. There is no other such piece of literary work. Only that which is inspired of God could accomplish such a feat of complete and total accuracy.
***Truth spoken, yet offered in sarcasm, denial, and disbelief, quite possibly have become words that may someday haunt your very soul. One would hardly expect a true adherent to the RC teachings, whether an ex-adherent or not, to understand the Mysteries of Yahweh Elohim and Yahshua Ha Mashiach, let alone the Ruach of Elohim. Any superficial reading of Holy Scripture, such as you must have done, will lead one down the road of confusion and misunderstanding. Confusion and misunderstanding seem to be the hallmark of Roman Catholicism as it is with anyone who refuses to recognize Yahweh Elohim, acknowledge Yahshua Ha Mashiach, and rely on the Ruach of Elohim as the only real source of Truth, Knowledge, and Understanding that exists throughout the universe. No amount of Darwinian doublespeak will ever be able to mask that reality.***
------------------ As we survey all the evidence, the thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather, Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially crafted the cosmos for our benefit?
As for the beggining of the thread i will tell you something. The autor donīt understand nothing about the Bible as the Catholic Church didnīt More than a book of good deeds the Bible tells us an overall story concerning Godīs plan of salvation. If you look at it in a humanistic way you will not understand it. In the eyes of common humans what God did was unfair. Nothing more wrong. If God didnīt have done it then that will be unfair. Take your belts to the explanation of that plan. Forget everything you have learned about the Bible Take the bible and follow my logic
When Adam and Eve sinned against God the Sin entered on all the Cosmos It propagates through the next generaions. Adam and Eve were expelled from the GARDEN and God put angels and a FLAMING SWORD guarding the way to the TREE OF LIFE. This will be the starting point. I believe this last description was symbolic and i will explain what i believe it means. Adam and Eve didnīt deserve to be on the garden of Eden but God was looking for someone who deserves it. Then he found Abraham a man with many defects but with a great FAITH(The words with capital letters are keywords) His faith pleasures God and he was chosen to be the father of the ones who will "Enter the Garden and take the Tree of Life". Note this is a journey through time and space(here they are dependent). They gain the right to "be in that Garden" and God had to give them the power to "overtake the sword " That is because God used Cananites to guard the Promised Land but it didnīt mean that they friends.On the contrary,Cananites and God are enemies because they worship another gods. When they enter the "Garden" they have to walk yet to the "Tree of Life".This correspond to walk in the dimension of time.Yet they have to fight the sword because it goes to everywhere(space and time dimensions). Finally they reach the place and on the time in which Jesus comes,dies on the cross,ressurrects and goes to Haven . However,only his disciples take the fruit of the Tree of Life and eat of it because the others are only eating from the other trees of the garden i.e they are so proud they think that Godīs only plan was to give them the promised land. Then on Pentecost God "sends a river through the world that carries the leafs of the Tree of Life that grows on each side of the river.This leaf will restore all the nations" This river is the Holy Spirit After the Pentecost the disciples went through the world preaching the Godspell of Jesus Christ which is much more important than our lives. Of course God has the power to ressurect all the cananites and preach them the Godspell. God concentrates first on the salvation of the soul FROM THE HELL. HELL is spiritual separation from God and is worst than death. HELL is something sufficiently terrifying to justify Godīs actions. You could live in spiritual HELL even when you are alive and rich and/or made very good deeds. And you could have ETERNAL LIFE even when you are alive and poor You could live one of them even when you are alive(death is not necessary). Then the things of the Lord are for TODAY and for THIS LIFE,not something we only expect in the future. Hadnīt you understand yet that EVERYTHING on this world converges to Jesus?
------------------ Man are not saved through good deeds but through faith in Jesus
[This message has been edited by Newborn, 07-14-2003]
[This message has been edited by Newborn, 07-14-2003]
Since Adam and Eve hadn't eaten from the Tree of Knowledge, they couldn't possibly be guilty of sin as sin requires knowing the difference between good and evil and deliberately choosing to do evil. Adam and Eve hadn't eaten from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil when they ate from it, so they didn't know that what they were doing was wrong, just as they didn't know that running around naked was wrong.
Notice, the very first thing they do when they eat from the Tree is not immediately panic that they just did something wrong. No, the first thing they do is panic over being naked.
Adam and Eve have free will.That is because they have soul and spirit. Is certain that the world was perfect at that time but they could choose to contuinue in that kind of world or to bring Sin(iniquity,corruption) to the world.
quote:Adam and Eve have free will.That is because they have soul and spirit.
Certainly Adam and Eve were capable of making a choice. The question is why should they be punished for their choices when they were incapable of understanding the consequences of their choices?
Remember, they hadn't eaten of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil yet and thus were unable to understand the point of not eating from that tree.
By what criteria were Adam and Eve supposed to listen to god and not the serpent? God says don't eat. The serpent says go ahead. How are Adam and Eve supposed to make an informed decision about which one to listen to? Especially since the serpent is saying that god is lying to them (and, as it turns out, god was lying to them...they didn't die that day and did, indeed, become as gods, knowing good from evil.)
Suppose I tell you that there are two types of actions in the world: Beetaratagang and clerendipity. One will gain you entrance to heaven. The other will send you to hell.
Which one do you choose? Beetaratagang or clerendipity? Come on, why are you hesitating? You have free will. You're an intelligent person. Make your choice!
quote:Is certain that the world was perfect at that time but they could choose to contuinue in that kind of world or to bring Sin(iniquity,corruption) to the world.
How can you sin if you don't know what you're doing?
Remember, Adam and Eve were sinning by running around naked. The very first thing they do upon eating of the Tree of Knowledge is panic over the fact that they are naked. When god calls out to them (um...why does god need to call them out of hiding?), they whine that they're naked.
But they weren't punished for being naked. Why? Because they were innocent. They didn't know that they were sinning and thus they cannot be held responsible for their actions.
If you have a valuable Mhing vase, do you put it on a wobbly pedestal in front of a toddler telling him not to touch? And do you really expect this infant to obey? And when you find your vase has been knocked over, do you kick the infant out of the house, never to return?
Or do you understand that a toddler is incapable of comprehending what it is you are telling him precisely because he is innocent and thus if you don't want your vase broken, it is up to you to put out of reach of the toddler?