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Author | Topic: Why would the apostiles have lied? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
compmage Member (Idle past 5179 days) Posts: 601 From: South Africa Joined: |
In His allknowing wisdom, God made sure that the birth of Christianity would be its proof. Eastern religions are based of theories and philosofies. There are no "original revelation". Therefore, their founders fall into the "maybe" catogary. Christianity, how ever, is based on the eye witness accounts of hundreds, even thousands of people. The apostiles themselves would therefore know whether they are lying, or telling the truth. There cannot have been a "maybe" in their mind. And if they were lying, they must have had alterier motives. The best example of them all is Paul. He had a fanatic hatred against Cristianity. He was a member of the most powerfull religious party of the jews: the farisites. AND he was a roman citizen. He gave all of it up, to become one of the most enthusiastic apostiles. The question that comes to mind is: WHY ON EARTH??? Remember, if they were lying, then they would've given up at the first sight of hardship: they would not have had any gauruntee that their story would catch on. What ever their motives, they would've find some other way to achive them. And let's not forget. The first church started in Jerusalem. 5000 members strong. Peter converted them, by putting the things THEY ALL SAW WITH THEIR OWN EYES into perspective.The stories he told about Jesus, THEY ALL SAW!
If the apostiles were lying, these people would've known, and expose them as lieers. This church then was broken up and schattered throughout the region, aiding the spread of Christianity. There is a mistake people make that the 12 apostiles were the only eye witnesses that spreaded christianity. There was hundreds, if not thousands.
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nos482 Inactive Member |
quote: To many TRUE believers it is not lying if one does it in one's god's name. If they believe that it is for the so-called "greater good".Also, many would perfer to believe in a popular myth than in an unpopular truth.
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5221 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
You are assuming what you read IS what the apostles said, of course.
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nos482 Inactive Member |
quote: Yeah, and why would later writers lie?
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Percy Member Posts: 22490 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
I don't know that lying is involved. The myths of William Tell, Robin Hood and King Arthur are all built upon kernels of truth embellished over time.
On the other hand, lying *might* be involved. Consider Oral Roberts' announcement that God had visited him and told him he was calling him home unless he raised seven million dollars. Oral Roberts was a major figure in the evangelical movement right up until his death. Did you believe him? Do you think he believed himself? --Percy
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compmage Member (Idle past 5179 days) Posts: 601 From: South Africa Joined: |
This man lied, because he could make money from it. Unlike the appostiles, he has no witnesses, and he is not endangering his live or wealth to do so. Your example is invalid
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compmage Member (Idle past 5179 days) Posts: 601 From: South Africa Joined: |
So, how can we be sure there was a king called Nebucanedzer of Babylon? You declare historical documentation invalid, for the sole reason that a religion is based on it.
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5221 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
Historical documentation isn't invalid, it is just much less tentative if it has independent evidence in its support. The problem with the bible is that all of the contentious issues require you accept the bible as self evident.
Now, I'm ignorant of much of the bibles text & history, tell me, do we have the original documents written by the apostles? Mark ------------------Occam's razor is not for shaving with.
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compmage Member (Idle past 5179 days) Posts: 601 From: South Africa Joined: |
My mistake. they didn't SAY it, they WROTE it to congregations across the world.
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Percy Member Posts: 22490 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
Oral Roberts lied to forward his ministry.
The apostles lied to forward their ministry. Or, more likely, the apostles never existed. They were symbolic of the 12 tribes of Israel created by the authors of the gospels to forward their ministry. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22490 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
Hanno writes: No one is declaring historical documentation invalid. It is valid to question the historicity of a source, which is what we're doing for the Bible. We have documentary evidence from many sources and multiple civilizations (his own plus ones he battled with) for the historicity of Nebuchadnezzar. Outside the Bible, what is the evidence that the apostles said what the Bibles says they said, or even that they ever existed? --Percy
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compmage Member (Idle past 5179 days) Posts: 601 From: South Africa Joined: |
This is the lousiest reply yet. The letters of the Apostiles EXIST. The letters tells that they have been WRITTEN by the apostiles. The proof that this is true, is the fact that the church exists today, dispite the oppresion during the first 300 years of Christianity. There is absolutely NO proof that the letter was not written by the apostiles. And most importantly, if christianity wasn't started by the apostiles who did? What documentation exist of it? It must have been the greatest conspiricy ever. Let me quess. You propably don't believe that Mohammed was a real person, or Moses or Budda. So tell me then. who DID start these religions?
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nos482 Inactive Member |
quote: I can answer that. No, we don't. They're not sure that these Gospels were even written by those who they are claimed to be.
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nos482 Inactive Member |
quote: So, others wrote it for them? Ever play the telephone game?
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Percy Member Posts: 22490 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
Hanno writes: The gospels were not written by the apostles. Paul was not an apostle, so the letters of Paul were not written by an apostle. What letters are you thinking of? --Percy PS - Could you please learn to spell apostle so my spell checker can get some rest?
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