Contradictions between Genesis 1-2

Greetings,I'd like to discuss the contradictions between Genesis 1 and 2. I have listed a few contradictions below (not in order):1) Genesis 1:31 because everything God created was complete after 6 days but in Genesis 2:4 LORD God created the heavens and earth in a day. (refuted) post 160.2) Genesis 1:27 because God created male and female at the same time but according to Genesis 2:5-20 LORD God created male and then created female later(2:20). (refuted) post 160.*The word God/Elohim is used in Genesis 1:1-31, 2:1-3 but in Genesis 2:4-25 LORD God/YHWH Elohim is used. Not a contradiction just an interesting point.3) The overall order of creation in Genesis 1:1-31, 2:1-3 is different than in Genesis 2:4-25.*Genesis 1:1-31, 2:1-3 the creation story seems to be more sophisticated than the creation story in Genesis 2:4-25. Not a contradiction just an interesting point.4) Genesis 1:1-31, 2:1-3 each thing created was considered good but in Genesis 2:5-20 it seems creation was a process of trial and error.5) Genesis 1:26 because there seems to be more than God creating but in Genesis 2:4-25 there is only LORD God creating.6) Genesis 1:29 because all plants are available for eating but in Genesis 2:16-17 some plants are off limits to eat.7) Genesis 1:28 because humans subdue the earth but in Genesis 2:15 humans serve the earth.8) Genesis 1:21-22 because the purpose for animals is not related to humans but in Genesis 2:18-19 the purpose for animals is related to humans.Here are some links to Genesis chapters 1 and 2.
Genesis 1 (KJV) - In the beginning God created
Genesis 2 (KJV) - Thus the heavens and theEdited by tthzr3, : more indicationsEdited by tthzr3, : clarityEdited by tthzr3, : corrected indication 1Edited by tthzr3, : clarityEdited by tthzr3, : errEdited by tthzr3, : adminEdited by tthzr3, : No reason given.Edited by tthzr3, : update!Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given.Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given.Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given.Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given.Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given.

---

Thank you

Hi Tthzr3,I normally focus on science topics, but since none of the other moderators have picked this up I've given it a look. Could you please make these changes:

• Change the title to "Contradictions between the two Genesis creation stories".
  ​
• Change the first paragraph to read:
  ​
  I'd like to discuss contradictions between the two creation stories found in Genesis 1 and 2. I have listed the contradictions below (not in order):
  ​
• In the following paragraphs, change the word "indication" to "contradiction" or some other synonym. Your current terminology makes them to be "indications of contradictions", but you're better off just calling them contradictions.

Post a reply to this when you're done editing your opening post and I'll take another look.--Percy

Admin,Done.Edited by tthzr3, : errEdited by tthzr3, : No reason given.Edited by tthzr3, : change

---

Thank you

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

thanks for pointing out 2:15. i somehow never noticed that.generally, the explanation is really that they're two separate creation myths that got stuffed into the edited volume. the different names of god are associated with specific editors (they're not known, they're referred to by their writing styles).

There is no disparity. These objections are like Sunday school for atheism. And here you are thinking you've really got something of profundity.One is a brief synopsis, where the other is going in to more detail. It is in no way two different events. "Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them." -Genesis 2:1This is the continuation from the first chapter, because in the previous chapter, it says:"And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."Right there is your indication that it stopped, after the sixth day."And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made... These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens"You could make a better case that Days actually mean long epochs of time, not an actual lunar day. What are you talking about? Are you joking? Seriously..."And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him."It says that God the man (singular), and then, just like in the first chapter, God made him a helper, the female, because it is not good for man to be alone.Where is the disparity? Yes, which most Christians argue is evidence of the Trinity. After all, when God says, "let us make man in our image," who is the "us" and the "our?"Secondly, Elohim and YHWH is the same thing, just as Adonai, El Shaddai, HaShem are different names for the same Being-- which we refer to in English as, God. That would be like saying Jehova and Yahweh are actually two different Gods, when in reality, they are different names for the same God. Or worse, like saying Yahweh and God are two different Beings rather than two different names for the same entity. No, like I said, one is a synopsis and the other is detailed. There are no actual changes to anything. The only thing different is the brevity. Yeah, which corresponds with what I just said above. Trial by error? Why do you say that? Where was the error? Where was the trial? Adonai in Hebrew means Lord. Prefixing LORD next to God does NOT mean that two different gods exist. Ask any scholar, even the most liberal one. Its simply your misunderstanding. I don't even know any fundy atheists who have ever made this objection, which should certainly tell you something. Just one! The very one God said NOT to eat from in the first place-- the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The earth was given by God for His creation. Mankind is to have dominion over the earth, which does not give man the go ahead to rape the earth. Again, one is a synopsis, the other slightly more detailed. There is nothing specifically contradictory in any of the alleged contradictions whatsoever. You have endeavored to make a mountain out of a molehill, and not very convincingly at that.

---

“This life’s dim windows of the soul, distorts the heavens from pole to pole, and goads you to believe a lie, when you see with and not through the eye.” -William Blake

I'm sorry but that seems to be the theology of "If I stick my figers in my ears and sing LaLaLa loud enough, and hold my eyes closed realy tight, I won;t have to deal with honesty or reality."
The order of creation is different.The method of Creation is different.The Gods are even different.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Show me.

---

“This life’s dim windows of the soul, distorts the heavens from pole to pole, and goads you to believe a lie, when you see with and not through the eye.” -William Blake

Show you? Or convince you?The evidence is in the two stories, the younger story found in Genesis 1 through the first half of Genesis 2:4, and the older tales (actually several tales mixed together) found beginning in the second half of Genesis 2:4.In the younger tale God creates by an act of will alone; in the later tale God creates by hand, making mud critters and then magically breathing life into them. In the younger story God creates plants then marine stuff and birdies then land animals and finally man and woman together. In the older story god creates man (but just man) then plants then land animals and birds (but no mention of the fishies) and then more or less as an after thought, woman. Also unlike all the other critters in the older tale, woman is simply cloned from man.The gods too are quite different. The god of the younger tale is efficient, able to create simply by an act of will, simply does things and then looks over what has been done, is Transcendent but aloof, separate but overarching. The god of the older tale is more human, somewhat bumbling (can't figure out what would make a helpmeet for Adam, tries the other animals) but also intimate, approachable, comradely.So order, method and even the descriptions of god vary greatly between the two stories.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

then in I believe that is what he was trying to say. I can understand his point, not sure I totally agree with you or him.I think the changing order of creation is more convincing of multiple sources syncretized into a single story. Gen 1:1 earth and sky (day not specified)
Gen 1:3-5 light and dark (day 1)
Gen 1:6-8 firmament and waters (day 2)
Gen 1:9-10 water and dry land (day 3)
Gen 1:11-12 plants/herbs (still day 3)
Gen 1:14-19 sun and moon and stars (day 4)
Gen 1:20-23 everything in the waters and everything in the sky (day 5)
Gen 1:24-26 All the creatures on the land (day 6)
Gen 1:27 Man AND Woman (ends day 6)Gen 2:7 makes his dust man and breathes life into him. (assuming this is day 6 recap)
Gen 2:18-19 God makes all beasts of the field and fowl of the air to bring before Adam (somehow forgetting he made fowl the day before, on day 5 and that he had created the beasts of the fields earlier that day)I thought I had short term memory issues, what were we talking about again?
Gen 2:21 God makes woman from the rib of Adam (again forgetting he had already made woman at the same time he made man)Thats not an issue of brevity, its a fundamental change in the order of creation from one story to the next.-xEdited by EighteenDelta, : different orders

Outline your argument. Give me some specifics, unless you want me to conform to your private interpretations for face value alone. Okay, now explain to me how you know that several tales were mixed together, rather than the incredibly simpler explanation and which corresponds nicely with Occam's Razor, which is that one is an abstract synopsis, while the second chapter goes in to greater detail. That's allegory Jar, since God only hands if you believe in an anthropomorphic God, all of which is countlessly illustrated in Hebrew poetry. You are asking a question of literalism versus non-literalism. IOW, should we believe that the Bible is entirely literal, partially literal and partially allegorical, or entirely allegorical.That isn't the premise of the OP. The OP is seeking to find irreconcilable differences of internal consistency, which is not found convincingly. He's making a mountain out of a molehill. Let me ask you a theological question: When God says to Adam, "Where are you?, after he tries to hide from God, is God asking because He honestly doesn't know where Adam is? Or is He asking as a way for to give Adam the option of introspection?Similarly, when God asks Jacob what his name is, does God not actually know Jacob's name? Or is God calling him out for the lie he told years earlier, to see if he will admit his lie? No, they really don't. First of all, there is no contradiction accept the one that you hope for. Secondly, Moses wrote the rest of the Pentateuch consistently. Do you really think he would be so stupid to bumble the two opening chapters?You are assigning rules to God and Moses. A legitimate contradiction would be something like this: In the first chapter it says, Adam named the animals, but in the second chapter, Eve named the animals. The OP is trying to find something ambiguous and calling it a contradiction when it isn't.Of all the alleged contradictions of the Bible, he chooses one that is so asinine, I don't even know how to respond with sincerity. These are seriously like the kind of theological questions a kid asks their Sunday School teacher. They are of no consequence at all. And if he can't get passed this, then by what authority does he have to challenge the accuracy and veracity of the Bible?If he wants a good biblical contradiction (an actual contradiction, really) he should look in the book of Acts, where there is an unmistakable contradiction. Its small, but it brings in to question the alleged inerrancy of the Bible. I won't tell him where. He's gonna have to do some homework tonight.If the the point of the thread is to discuss biblical contradictions, then lets find an actual contradiction and not this small time stuff.

---

“This life’s dim windows of the soul, distorts the heavens from pole to pole, and goads you to believe a lie, when you see with and not through the eye.” -William Blake

Shaving with Occam's Razor would suggest that two different stories are two different stories. You're adding the unnecessary "entity" of a consistent Bible.

---

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels

You asked me to outline some of the things that make the two stories mutually exclusive. I did, if you disagree then present your best argument for why there are not two stories. Well if Moshe actually wrote anything then the evidence is that "Yes, he was that stupid."But there is no evidence Moshe ever wrote anything or even existed.But the question of why the redactors who were certainly capable of reading not only included two different, mutually exclusive stories, but went a step further and placed the younger story first is a good one. Why did they include two stories of Creation that exclude each other, if one is true the other is false?That should be one of the first clues for readers.They include both stories because creation is not really what the stories are about. Creation is simply plot devices, tools to use to talk about what was really important to the story tellers.They put the younger story first because it served as a introduction, a wide angle view from afar, that shows a Transcendent God that oversees everything. That beginning, that opening shot, let the authors talk about what was really important, that GOD is the source of all, and that we should take one day off out of seven.They then combined several of the older tales from a time when folk saw God as just a super human. Again, creation is but a plot device to allow them to present a different view of god, a kindler gentler god, one with many human limitations and weaknesses, one that is somewhat fumbling and unsure, fearful and limited, but also intimate, solid, chatty, companionable.The plot devices in the rest of the story post creation allowed the authors to get to other material that they thought important, why man had to work as a farmer instead of simply foraging like other animals, why we fear snakes, why childbirth seems harder and more painful for humans.And that seems to be the point of this thread.Why did the redactors include two obviously mutually exclusive and contradictory creation myths?I believe they had good reason.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

You can clearly see that they aren't two different stories, since nothing contradicts the other, it simply omits certain information. That's not a contradiction, that's an omission.That would mean that if you wrote a book, and reiterated one part of the story later on, if you did not keep every minute detail, you would be contradicting yourself. Think about it: Is that really the case?One is a synopsis, and the other is a more detailed explanation. There is no contradiction.

---

“This life’s dim windows of the soul, distorts the heavens from pole to pole, and goads you to believe a lie, when you see with and not through the eye.” -William Blake

Nonsense, of course. Take point 4 in the OP Message 1:

quote:

---

The overall order of creation in Genesis 1:1-31, 2:1-3 is different than in Genesis 2:4-25.

---

The orders are different - animals, then humans in chapter 1 - man, then animals, then woman in chapter 2. You can't just assert that they're the same.Here's a list of colours: red, orange, yellow, green.Here's another list: green, blue, indigo, violet.While there is some overlap between the two lists, you can't say they're the same list. There are "omissions" in both. Neither is "more detailed" than the other. The two lists (stories) just disagree.

---

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels