SIMPLE Astronomical Evidence Supports the Bible

This message has been edited by Phatboy, 04-23-2005 03:11 PM

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"How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives."-- Anne DillardEvery tool carries with it the spirit by which it had been created.
-- Werner Karl Heisenberg: (1901-1976) German physicistI read the newspaper avidly. It is my one form of continuous fiction.
-- Aneurin Bevan: (1897-1960) English politician

What the heck do I mean? Right?Thank you for your concern.In My Not-So-Humble Opinion; The Bible is both: over-rated and almost completely misunderstood by the very people who most promote it.I will here and now discuss but one of the things which was going through my pea-brain when I wrote what I wrote: I haven't time to polish this before heading off to the second half of my split shift. By the time I return I shall surely wish to edit something here. Meanwhile: Let the games continue.db

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Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

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you made in your original post a physics claim that with a pocket calculator can be shown as absurd. Namely, the ejection of something like the LMC from the Milky Way bulge. I challenged you earlier to get out your calculator but you never replied.

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I'm guessing that your belief that Newton's Laws of Motion even apply outside of our solar system is somehow rooted in your blind acceptance of Aristotle's first principle.

I am trying to show that the simple words of the Bible demonstrates its truth. We have endured unrelenting attacks claiming that our Bible could not be true because science contradicts it. We have conducted a valiant struggle with our own versions of science. We can’t win this war of ideas that way. God made the universe for His glory - not to glorify our science. My message cannot be made socially acceptable, because I am interpreting what the Scriptures say about physics with simple words, not science.Why is it so hard to think about our first principle? Paul warns about these stoicheon: [elementary ideas, first principles] of philosophy in Colossians 2:8. He uses the word sulagogeo: [to carry one off as a captive, to lead away from the truth and subject to one's sway] Our Western mind set assumes that changelessness exists.

• We have constructed an impregnable fortress of knowledge built on this assumption.
• The assumption is very handy for inventing ideas and symbols about things that do not change.
• Yet we never examine these things without the use of our assumption. You cannot even measure an atom or claim that time is unchanging without using this assumption.
• Yet all of this is a based on symbolic thinking where mathematics has more importance than what is visible and the first principle is protected at all costs.

According to the Bible, Jesus is coming to destroy the destroyers of the earth, to turn the wisdom of this world into foolishness and to set up a righteous kingdom. The residents of this kingdom will not know war, they will have no religious teachers, they will live in a prosperous agricultural world and ride their camels to Jerusalem to worship the King. God has not spoken to me. What I know of Him comes from studying His Book. Who is He? He is a loving God who came to die for our sins. Yet He is also a warrior who will return to save the world: to destroy the destroyers of the earth.Image that the young of a future generation gather around an old survivor to question her about the dark ages, when the world was almost destroyed for profit, when wars, famine and disease wiped out most of the world's population in seven years, when a great asteroid hit the sea etc. Imagine that the old woman tells them how people called scientists could use complex mathematics to show the universe was 99.97% undetectable. Will the young ones, in utter amazement, will they roar with laughter? Can God really make foolish the wisdom of this world?To think so now seems foolish, but if what this Book predicts comes true, will it seem foolish after these last days. I wonder who the destroyers of the earth are?

Yes it's all of those things, taking it as a description of reality-priceless.There is no orginal language copy of the bible.

So you don't think that the rules of physics exist outside the solar system?

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I am trying to show that the simple words of the Bible demonstrates its truth. We have endured unrelenting attacks claiming that our Bible could not be true because science contradicts it. We have conducted a valiant struggle with our own versions of science. We can’t win this war of ideas that way. God made the universe for His glory - not to glorify our science. My message cannot be made socially acceptable, because I am interpreting what the Scriptures say about physics with simple words, not science.

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And you are showing that the simple words of the bible are nothing more than the simple words of the bible, important to some, but not anything more than that. You are trying to twist the simple words of the bible to mean more than what it's authors intended it to be, and therefore have corrupted it. The bible says nothing of physics. The bible says nothing science. The way the Jewish faith views the Tanakh is the history of a people searching for god, with all the warts and wrinkles of the people who are trying to find god in their own way.As far as I am concerned, trying to twist the 'simple' words in the bible to have it show your misunderstanding of scientific fact is corrupting the bible, corrupting science, and corrupting spirituality.

Are you a republican, a democrat?

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porteus@gmail.com

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You say "as a Christian" as if that means anything to me. All that tells me is that you're way of thinking is very limited to someone elses opinions that you've decided to adopt just because they are written and because of this, it has been passed along and people have jumped on the band wagon. Now you feel safe to say "I'm a Christian and there are other people that are also Christians and have also read the same opinions I read too and they fit their lifestyle, so I must be right

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Any group you have ever claimed to be apart of in your life should be judged this harshly. By the way, there is mos def room to breathe.

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porteus@gmail.com

that has nothing do with the question i asked. none of that. i'm asking a vague and rhetoric question?how is everything changing together any different than everything staying the same?i'm not gonna bother with your misrepresentations of the biblical perspective of the cosmos and the scientific until you tell me what the difference your describing actually is.This message has been edited by Arachnophilia, 04-23-2005 08:52 PM

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אָרַח

I definitely do, that was just the kind of response Eta might expect to get.http://EvC Forum: SIMPLE Astronomical Evidence Supports the Bible -->EvC Forum: SIMPLE Astronomical Evidence Supports the Bible

I agree with you that science did not exist when the Bible was written. I am doing the exact opposite of what you claim. I am trying to take what it says in its historical - grammatical context as valid and I claim the simplest visible evidence supports this exegesis.I used the word physics in my post, but not in the sense of the modern branch of knowledge. The second dictionary definition is the properties of physical things and their phenomena. The Bible does make clear statements about the nature of matter.I used to tailor what it said about that subject to fit our culture. I did not do that deliberately. I did not know how to think any other way. It is when I started testing the first principle, that I was emancipated from that principle.Is there evidence that our first principle is false from astronomy? The earliest recorded astronomical series of observations is the Venus Tablets of Ammizaduga. They recorded the same synodic period as we have, but the orbit is remarkably different from ours.Average Venus Today

• disappears behind sun 50 days
• appears as morning and evening star 263 days
• disappears at close approach - average 8 days ===> Total synodic 584 days
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  Cuneiform tablets show Venus over 21 year period
• disappearance on far side of sun longer - 65 and 90 days
• evening and morning appearances shorter 240 / 241 days
• Disappearance at close approach 7 days ==> Total synodic cycle 584 days

The Mayans, who had an entirely different calendar, recorded a similar division of the same synodic period on their bark books.This suggests that the solar system was much smaller in historical times. Claudius Ptolemy measured what seems to be a smaller solar system in degrees / minutes. Yet all his measurement errors cancel so that the his parameters worked - yet his synodic periods, sometimes averaged over 800 years, are almost identical to ours.
If matter ages as a relationship - the one thing that could seem unchanging is durational periods. Why? Time cannot be separated from motions or changes. As Augustine said If a day went by in an hour, we would still call it a day. Their measurements, if we question our first principle, give us grounds to question its verity.

Thank you for noticing what may seem to be an out-of-character comment.In my response to Percy I touched on what is perhaps the most basic true message of the Bible: When I say the Bible is "true" I do not necessarily mean that the Bible is factual or accurate. I mean that it is a true account of what the author(s) imagined reality to be. Genesis, for instance, was, once upon a time, good 'science.' The same science which was being taught in the best universities of the ancient world. What remains to us is a true account of what that 'science' was.Is it factual? Yes and No. The account was actually written in the distant past. That is a fact. The 'science' it reveals was actually taught as fact in ancient time. But we can no longer consider that 'science' itself to be factual.It it accurate? Yes and No. The text is probably as accurate as one can expect considering the difficulties inherent in transcribing and translating it numerous times over hundreds of years. Similar expositions of ancient natural science, for which we have much older hard-copy evidence, confirm that Genesis must have been considered valid at the time it was written. But the 'science' of it is, of course, incorrect.Science evolves, and following behind, at a very skeptical distance: religion evolves. Nations which fail to keep up with the evolution of science, lose power, or become extinct. Congregations which fail to keep pace with the evolution of religion find themselves driving to work in horse-drawn carts. Individuals who think the author of Genesis knew what would be seen with the Hubble Space Telescope find themselves way out on a limb.Does any of this make sense to you?db

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Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

Well just for clarification, do you think that gravity could be different outside the solar system.

I like your picture of Eta Carinae - an explosive ejection of material into two lobes traveling in opposite directions. How does physics explain a bipolar explosion?Physics works in the here and now. It works because we have adjusted our symbols until it does work. That does not mean the concepts, the assumptions, on which it is founded are valid.Energy is a symbolic thing that exists only in equations and has never been isolated in any experiment. We can only say light or matter is energetic. Energy is such a nebulous thing that it can even violate the "Laws of Conservation." Dark energy is supposed to spring our to the vacuum and accelerate matter. Another invisible thing invented to protect our first principle!The evidence that energy is a symbolic thing is seen in the distant sky. How could these tiny little objects be ejecting other smaller objects as though hammered out in violent ejections?

• If the ancient primordial galaxies do not have the same extension - geometry & shape - as local galaxies. They seem compressed.
• If they do not move the same - they are seen in chains - sometimes clearly linked.
• If the light from every atom from these primordial galaxies is shifted - yet we can identify the same atoms
• What is wrong with taking the evidence at face value? If the things do not look the same, move the same, and they are the same atoms but shifted
• Why not take it at face value?
• Does this confirm what the Bible says that everything in creation is under a decree - an orderly submission to corrupt. [Greek: phthora - used by Plato for the degeneration of matter].

Why do we defend our first principle with vigor? It must be the key assumption, the dogma of science. Without it our way of thinking would collapse. The Bible predicts that God takes them with their own skills. Can he take even mathematics and logic? Think about it.