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Author Topic:   Tower of Babble (a bunch of baseless babble)
Omnivorous
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Posts: 3990
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 160 of 198 (285779)
02-10-2006 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by Chiroptera
02-10-2006 11:13 PM


Re: insignificant
Yeah, if you visited Haiti, you would find amazing voodoo shrines with European saints in them, and Christian grave sites with voodoo charms.

"Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?"
-Sir Toby Belch, Twelfth Night
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Chiroptera, posted 02-10-2006 11:13 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by Chiroptera, posted 02-11-2006 1:47 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3990
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 163 of 198 (285905)
02-11-2006 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by Chiroptera
02-11-2006 1:47 PM


Re: It's a mystery.
What I have trouble understanding is why she would be so desperate for confirming evidence that she will just blindly accept any evidence or "reasoning" no matter how lame, and will automatically dismiss any refutation of that evidence no matter how reasonable and consistent with what we actually do see.
That is one of the greatest mysteries to me as well, Chiroptera, but we see it consisently here.
I know that people tend to focus on confirming evidence and to underestimate or ignore negative evidence. We see it clearly in both simple logic tests and in real world scenarios.
We have all experienced that "Aha!" rush when our opinion appears to be confirmed by a new piece of data. But some people examine the full data set critically after new data appears, and some do not.
Maybe we're so hardwired this way that without the training or discipline to counteract that native/naive tendency, it just takes over.

"Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?"
-Sir Toby Belch, Twelfth Night
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
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 Message 164 by lfen, posted 02-11-2006 9:45 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3990
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 165 of 198 (285918)
02-11-2006 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by lfen
02-11-2006 9:45 PM


Re: It's a mystery.
An epigram to set the mood:
"It is the peculiar and perpetual error of the human understanding to be more moved and excited by affirmatives than by negatives."
--Francis Bacon
I certainly wouldn't describe the scenario you describe as the result of hardwiring--in fact, I probably shouldn't use the term hardwiring to describe anything about the human mind, it is so plastic and malleable.
Yet we can see some "atomic" level mental phenomena that mirror such disconnects, and I think confirmation bias is one of them.
Experimental subjects asked to turn over cards to prove or disprove a proposed rule connecting the two sides invariably seek confirmatory evidence, fail to seek negative evidence, and often ignore negative evidence when it turns up.
Science implicitly recognizes this tendency and is structured to combat it.
As Wiki puts it:
Confirmation bias is a type of statistical bias describing the tendency to search for or interpret information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions. In inductive inference, confirmation bias is a type of cognitive bias toward confirmation of the hypothesis under study. To compensate for this observed human tendency, the scientific method is constructed so that we must try to disprove our hypotheses.
That's dry and intellectualized, but the effect can profoundly shape our perceptions and conclusions about the world around us.
Here is an excellent passage from skepdic.com:
Confirmation bias refers to a type of selective thinking whereby one tends to notice and to look for what confirms one's beliefs, and to ignore, not look for, or undervalue the relevance of what contradicts one's beliefs. For example, if you believe that during a full moon there is an increase in admissions to the emergency room where you work, you will take notice of admissions during a full moon, but be inattentive to the moon when admissions occur during other nights of the month. A tendency to do this over time unjustifiably strengthens your belief in the relationship between the full moon and accidents and other lunar effects.
This tendency to give more attention and weight to data that support our beliefs than we do to contrary data is especially pernicious when our beliefs are little more than prejudices. If our beliefs are firmly established upon solid evidence and valid confirmatory experiments, the tendency to give more attention and weight to data that fit with our beliefs should not lead us astray as a rule. Of course, if we become blinded to evidence truly refuting a favored hypothesis, we have crossed the line from reasonableness to closed-mindedness.
If a human consciousness is shaped by such effects for many years, without any sort of corrective training, education, or influence, then the result can appear quite insane. The more we wish our beliefs to be confirmed, the less evidence we require to enjoy that confirmation.
I'm not arguing that this one phenomenon explains the type of behavior you describe, but I would argue that it is foundational.
And I'm not sure I agree that religion has evolved ever better techniques. They seem pretty much the same now as they were thousands of years ago.
The book, Everything She Ever Wanted, sounds fascinating. I'll check it out.
This message has been edited by Omnivorous, 02-11-2006 10:49 PM

"Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?"
-Sir Toby Belch, Twelfth Night
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by lfen, posted 02-11-2006 9:45 PM lfen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by lfen, posted 02-12-2006 3:31 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3990
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 167 of 198 (285982)
02-12-2006 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by lfen
02-12-2006 3:31 PM


Re: It's a mystery.
Ifen writes:
I don't know how to succinctly specify my ideas on this so I'll just very roughly sketch out where I'm coming from. I'm thinking of the momentum of culture and how it affects the minds (brain content etc.) of members of that culture. Religion has had thousands of years developing its function in human society compared to the the recent few hundreds of years that science has been developing.
Religion has greater appeal to the mass social culture as the two have co developed over the thousands of years of civilization. I think it will take many hundreds of years before the influences of science and rationality permeat culture to the extent that religions do today.
You explained it quite well, Ifen, and I agree.

"Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?"
-Sir Toby Belch, Twelfth Night
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by lfen, posted 02-12-2006 3:31 PM lfen has not replied

  
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