Giant People in the bible?

This post has to do with the giants mentioned in the bible specificaly.I am aware that this subject has probably been touched on before, but I wanted to start from scratch to determine who or what is the meaning of these mysterious giant people mentioned in the OT."There were giants in the earth in those days" Gen. 6:4We all know that the original hebrew word was "Nephilim" and then later translated to "giants."The Nephilim seem to be of mythological significance, and the term is rather vague. It can be translated to tyrants, villains, and mighty men. Basicaly, the Nephilim seem to be the hybrid children who were born from the gods and the earth women - similar to Hercules of the more well known Greek mythology.Genesis 6:4 clearly gives us evidence that the bible does have irrifutible mythological foundations.Later on in the book of Numbers 13:33, The Israelite spies of Moses fame, report that the people of Hebron and Southern Canaan, are a people of tall stature, and the 3 sons of Anak, who are descendants of the giants (Nephilim) made them feel like locusts in comparison to these impressive people.It is obvious that the spies were exaggerating about the height of these men, but the sons of Anak were in anycase, extremely tall and strong looking compared to them. (avg. man back then was 5ft5)Later on in Deutoronomy there are refernces to other tall peoples, evidnetly the same people, but various mythological names are given to them from different ethnic tounges.The Emim, Rephaim, Anakim, and Zamzummim (Deut.2:10) are probably all one and the same basic ethnicity.How big were these people?Goliath was probably about seven feet tall according to the Dead Sea scrolls, which are the oldest record of the Book of Sam1.
Dead Sea scrolls say he was 4 cubits and a span. His armor was the same weight as described in the KJV though (125lbs).
One of Goliath's decendants mentioned in 2Sam. 21:20 had 6 fingers on each hand.An Egyptian 5 cubits tall ( 7 ft 6) is mentioned in 1Chron. 11:23.Og, the king of Bashan, in Syria-TransJordan, was called the last of the lineal descendants of the Rephaim people. Deut. 3:11 says that his huge Iron bedframe, or couch, was 13ft long, 6ft wide. (9 cubits x 4 cubits) Big enough for a giant to have slept on. There are modern day Basketball players that sleep in 8 and 9 foot beds, so I think it is probable Og could have been as tall as 8-9 feet max.Some fundamentalists are adamit that people before the flood were 12 to 16 feet tall, or taller. But the bible seems to support the existence of people between 7 and 9 feet (2-3 metres) And no taller.My conclusion is that these giant people mentioned in the OT, are very similar to the very real tribes that live in Southern Sudan and other parts of Africa, the Tutsi, Dinka, Nuer, Anuak, and Nuba people who are so tall that many of the men and women are 7 ft and beyond. These tribes often practice selective breeding, and inbreeding, to keep the genetic line of immense ancestral stature. A result is that these people have a much higher risk of developing deforimites. Six fingers (polydactyly), is a surprisingly common occurance among these people.It isn't then of little surprise that Goliath's relatives have evidence of this mutation (polydactyly)- relevant to inbreeding.It then seems logical that some people in old Kanaan and the vicinity of the Near-east, where very much like those in modern day Sudan, but seem to have practiced the selective breeding to a higher degree and may have been much taller than many of todays tallest Africans. But we must ask, if there exists any archaeological evidence of these tall people in Palestine and TransJordan?Certainly if they existed, a skeleton would have been found by now?Infact, They have. Tall skeletons were found in Jordan in the 1980's. These were, 7 foot plus.Source: http://www.ptvproductions.ca/releasing/footsteps.html

Thanks for your response guys.The film documentary is the only refernce I can make for the tall skeletons found in Jordan.But here are a few refernces to bible dictionaries which describe tall skeletons in Palestine:According to Unger's Bible Dictionary, "Skeletons recovered in Palestine attest the fact that men as tall as Goliath once lived in that general region" (p. 419).The liberal Harper’s Bible Dictionary (1961) p.231) mentions that "recovered skeletons prove that men as tall as Goliath lived in Palestine."The conservative Wycliffe Bible Dictionary p.709 also says, "Recovered skeletons of equal height from archaeological excavations at Gezer and other sites bear out the unusually tall stature of individuals in ancient Palestine at roughly the same period."Infact, tall human skeletons of men 6ft-6ft4 inches tall were found and published in "The excavation of Gezer 1902 - 1905 and 1907 - 1909"source:
{Deleted what were apparently 2 very, very, very, very long URLs, which didn't work anyway. This restores the page width to normal - Adminnemooseus}This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 08-07-2004 01:43 PM

I was listening to Coast to Coast radio just a little while ago, and the guest was Richard Rives, president of Wyatt Archaeological Research. Among the things he covered, was that he mentioned that Ron found some bones of giant humans that were examined by orthopaedic surgeons, who calculated that the people who possessed the bones may have stood between 12 and 14ft tall.A matter of fact, Ron did find an enormous human thumb bone near Mt. Ararat in Turkey, twice as long as a normal mans thmb bone:
http://www.s8int.com/giants7.html
Telenor | Sidan hittades inte | 404Jim knows which bone I'm talking about.If the thumb bone is still at the museum in Tennesse, maybe they should have it re-examined and publish the results of whether it is truly human and how old it is.This would be the first concrete evidence of humans over 10 feet.

I am skeptical about the giant human bones Ron found, but until anyone can prove them to be anything other than human, I can't say that they are not human.What we need is someone in the medical profession with a trained eye, who can tell us if this looks anything like a genuine human thumb bone.
whether it is a metacarpus, Proximal Phanx, or whatever.

I agree with you that we should use our common sense to sort the fact from the obvious fake. But if we don't investigate the claim further, how will we know for sure either way?I'm sure many mythological creatures never existed in the physical sense, but giant humans most certainly did exist. They gave rise to many myths and legends in our world long ago in my opinion. Giant is a vague term, when I mean "giant" I mean people between 2-3 meters tall. Which have been medicaly verified by science.

You're right. Some Creationists do believe in men 20 feet tall that lived in ancient times. Heck, I've even heard some people claiming that 36ft high giant humans existed.Having researched the evidence of human giants for the past 5 years, I came to the realization that the bible clearly has no hard indication that men that big(20ft) existed.The bible's giants were certainly within 7-10ft. I mean, that's conceivibly within the range of human possibility. Other ancients mention giants in this range of height. Josephus mentions Ealeazer a Jew 10 feet tall, and Pliny mentions Gabbaras the Arabian at 9ft9 etc. http://www.worldwideschool.org/...itiesofMedicine/chap7.html

I also agree that an entire "race" or Nationality of giants most likely never existed. But tribes and family groups of giant people most definately existed in the past, and do exist today.The tallest nationality as a whole would be the people of the Netherlands, whose men are on avg. 6ft1, which is about 3-4 inches taller than avg American men.Yes, Africa has the tallest "tribes" today. There are people among the Tutsi, Dinka, and other tribes where men are often close to 6.5-7 feet avg.I have personally talked to a man from Ghanna who said that if you visit Sudan, you will see people 7 feet tall commonly.The apparent lack of archaeological evidence for very tall humans does
not mean they didn't exist. For one thing, in which specific locality are you talking about? I'm sure there are plenty of extra tall skeletons in Sudan.

Yes, I have looked at the photos and studies them to the best of my knowledge. But since I am not a physician I don't know for sure if that is or is not a possibly very large human bone.But I appreciate your analysis of the bone. I want to see what people who know about the anatomy of the human hand have to say about it.However, I don't agree with you that it wouldn't be "necessary to go further in the investigation" based on simply looking at the photograph.

Sorry about that, I will make sure to use the red arrow button.
Thanks for telling me.

hmm. I don't see it as being odvious they are two different bones. They look like the same bone but at different angles and photo quality to me.
But maybe you are right.

Thanks for the reference.I think that lots of the skeletons of giants and cyclopses that the Greeks found where nothing more than mammoth and extinct elephant or bear fossil bones and skeletons.If a Mammoth skeleton was arranged in an erect bipedal form, it would probably appear to be a huge 18-20ft tall giant.

You are right Ramoss, except that it says "Four cubits and a span"
a span was about half a cubit. the distance between your thumb and small finger. (8-9 inches)If the Hebrew common cubit of David's day was ~18 in. this would mean
that Goliath was ~6 ft 9 ins tall either with or without his helmet atop his head. He would tower head and shoulders over most men of that day by nearly 20 inches.But infact, Goliath was not the tallest giant mentioned in the good book. The Egyptian mentioned in 1Chron. 11. was infact considerably taller than goliath. He was "five cubits high." Even if this were an approximate measure, the image we get is a man 7 ft 6 ins tall.That would be a giant compared to any ancient man of those days.

I came up with the calculation that Goliath was ~6ft 9 by reading that the two LXX manuscripts and a Dead Sea scroll manuscript of Samuel (4QSama) read "4 cubits and a span". Th KJV reads "Six cubits and a span."The KJV that most Christians read was derived from the Masoretic Texts.
The reading of "Six cubits and a span" suggests a scribal error.As for Ron Wyatt's team discovering the giant human jaw. I have seen the photograph. The mandible was 6.5 inches wide bwteen TMJ's. That would correspond to a very large human head perhaps 7.5 inches wide when living.A Photo of the bone:Create a Website | Tripod Web Hosting I certainly don't know of any genuine evidence that would put people at 12-14 feet tall. I am not saying it doesn't exist, but I would sure like to see a copy of a report done by by some physicians who actually examined the giant finger bones that Ron found.I believe that giant people did exist in the old days, just look at how many Basketball players we have today, a tribe of people that tall, or even taller would give rise to legends of giants. I am not talking about 14 foot people, because that simply has not been medicaly verified, whereas nine feet has.

I guess the only way to find out if those bones still exist is to contact the Wyatt museum in Tennessee. I've tried to contact them by email but haven't had much success. Maybe the phone will work better.I am open minded to the possibility that the bones do exist, and I am also open minded to the possibility that they are nothing other than some animal bones. But Until the bones themselves can be authenticated or un-authenticated by reliable individuals of credentials, I don't consider it solid evidence of giant human bones.The same can go for the giant human jawbone in Turkey.But let us consider. If the jawbone described was 6.5 inches wide, That is about 25% wider than most peoples mandibles. Therefore it could have belonged to an individual with a very wide face, and even if they were proportionate to their wide jaw, they most probably would have stood between 6.5 and 7.5 feet.(An extremely tall human) but no 12-14 foot giant.You see, no genuine evidence to my recollection has existed which has ever proven that men 12 feet and beyond ever existed. I am open to the possibility and indeed intrigued with such an idea, but we must face the facts that modern science requires genuine bones and remains and not simply stories of them being discovered.

I found the picture from a website, and then posted it on my own.Lysimachus, you know someone who claims to have some giant human bones in his posession?If you could convince him to take some pictures of them and post them on the net, that would be absolutely great.I am very open minded and would love to hear anymore information about this.