Independent Historical Corroboration for Biblical Events

Imagine this. You are a detective and you are investigating a murder. At the scene of the crime, you found the victim brutally raped and stabbed to death. At the crime lab, they've done a DNA analysis of the sperm sample recovered from the victim and all over the floor. It just happens that you have a suspect and his DNA markers match exactly with the sperm sample from the crime scene.But wait, you can't convict the bastard because there are no eye witnesses or any kind of oral tradition regarding the incident.The kind of evidence scientists have been discovering to support the big bang theory are as convincing as the DNA scenario. Now, be honest. Do you know the first thing about the big bang model?

---

The Laminator

​

I wouldn't be so quick to judge Jar, looks like the folks at Landover Baptist are onto this talking snake issue Creation Scientists Search for Talking Snake Bones in Africa(apologies for the bare link, loses its humor with explanantion)

I always loved those ID10T model Christians. Landover is where the Worthwhile Worship--"Unsaved are not Welcome".How pathetic.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Landover is a parody.

True

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Independent Historical Corroboration for Biblical EventsIsn't that the name of this thread?Key word: Historical-of or relating to the character of history
history- a narrative of events, a storyUnless you science types are going to get all poetic on me and tell me that fossil records and sediment tell a story (I know they do) then you missed my pun all together.There is no written history of the big bang, there is only "scientific evidence" as you all would refer to it and this is conjecture.This leads to, of course, epistemology, no?This message has been edited by steve, 06-22-2004 05:41 PM

Do you really want to go there?In the 400 years we've been using the scientific epistemology, we've gone to the moon, doubled or tripled lifespans, conquered diseases, and brought people together across the globe. We're this close to curing AIDS and cancer.But before that, for 1600 years, we used your epistemology, the Christian one. Hrm, what did we call that time.. oh, right. The Dark Ages.Look, if you want to play the epistemology game, that's fine. I'll be ready over here with Medicine and Technology, and you'll start the game with 1600 years of ignorance, warfare, oppression, disease, and hatred. I'll even let you move first.

We stand today on the shoulders of those who came before us.Please tell me that you are not naive enough to think that there are no intelligent, articulate, scientific christians or do you count Isaac Newton as being simple?Anwyaway I as far as I know epistemology is the philosophy of the nature of knowledge, so I'm not sure what you're so riled up about.I think that would be a different thread anyway.

This view of nature you have stated admirably; tho' admitted by all naturalists & denied by no one of common sense. We all admit development as a fact of history; but how came it about? Here, in language, & still more in logic, we are point blank at issue-- There is a moral or metaphysical part of nature as well as a physical. A man who denies this is deep in the mire of folly. Tis the crown & glory of organic science that it does thro' final cause, link material to moral. . . You have ignored this link; &, if I do not mistake your meaning, you have done your best in one or two pregnant cases to break it. Were it possible (which thank God it is not) to break it, humanity in my mind, would suffer a damage that might brutalize it--& sink the human race into a lower grade of degradation than any into which it has fallen since its written records tell us of its historyAdam Sedgwick

What I gather from present scientific evidence is this:The earth is old, but humans are not.Catastrophic occurances are responsible for some things, gradual occurances for others.What do you think.

Did I say there weren't? Please, by all means, show me where I did.Or are you one of those people who can't recognize an epistemology in use? Here's a hint - try to show me where Newton derived his theories about Optics from the Bible. Show me chapter and verse. Show me where in the Bible Newton based his laws of motion. Yes, of course it is. Creationists like you would have us abandon the scientific epistemology - a method of gathering knowledge by experiment and observation - with the literalist Christian epistemology - using the Bible as the ultimate source and authority on all matters on which it speaks.Well, we tried it your way for 1600 years. The results I have described above. And you seriously want to be compared with the scientific marvels of the last 400 years?

That's probably pretty close. The Earth is probably about 4,500 Million years old while humans have probably only been around for about 1-2 Million years.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

What does the rest of the Bible teach about the time frame of creation?Exodus 20:11 In six days the Lord made Heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the 7th day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath and made it holy.Can you imagine Moses trying to explain to everybody that those days back then were not really the days we know today or that there was a gap of an unknown length. But we do pattern our week and Sabbath day rest after those days. 6 Days to work and rest on the 7th day.Later in the book of Exodus V 31:17-18 The Sabbath was to be a sign between God and the children of Israel: for in 6 days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the 7th day He rested and was refreshed. V Does it matter if it was 6000 days, 6000 years or had a gap V it certainly doesnt square with scripture.In Mark 10:6 Jesus Chirst indicates that there was no long ages of evolution from molecules to arrive at man V But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.Scripture clearly teaches that Jesus was Creator in John 1:1-3, Col. 1:16, Eph 3:9, Heb 1:2, 10. If He was (and clearly the Father, Son and Holy Spirit were involved), then we should take His word.If the universe and earth were created billions of years before man then it was foolish for God to have said in Gen 1:14 & 16 that they were created to serve mankind for signs and seasons. Also in Gen 1:26, man was given stewardship responsibility V why would man be given responsibility if it were evolutions responsibility for getting the earth populated with all living things? In Hebrews 2:6-8 we read that God made man a little lower than the angels and crowned him with glory and honor and put everything under his feet.Why did redemption start as soon as sin and death entered the world if God used castastrophe, cataclysm or death and suffering for millions of years before to get to the perfect or recreated perfect world or to get mankind?
the Bible teaches that Jesus, the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world
names of redeemed written in the book of life from the foundation of the worldIn Luke 11:50-51 They were responsible for blood of all prophets from beginning of world V 1st prophet was Abel. No world before the beginning V no indication of millions and billions of years before the beginning V Abel was 2nd child born.When did the devil start sinning V I John 3:8 K because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. Also, he is a murderer from the beginning V Cain and Abel.Mark 13:19 propehtic days of distress V those will be days of distress never to be equaled from the beginning, when God created the world until now V and never to be equaled again. So it indicates that people were on the earth all that time but nothing would equal this coming tribulation. Flood, war, disease, famine, earthquake, storms, etc.Also note that Jesus is telling them there was a beginning and there is a termination. God is not using evolution to continuously create. Note Hebrews 4:3b V couldnt be clearer: K And yet His work has been finished since the creation of the world. About the 7th day rest. Believers enter Gods rest.In Matt 25:34 He promised the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world V doesnt sound like plans for millions and billions of years but that God quickly began to implement His plan of redemption.In Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so they are without excuse. Evidence of Gods existence, His role as creator and Lord of man is clearly seen, not just by hominids from the beginning but by all men from the creation of the world.Why was Bishop Usshers scholarly work on the age of the earth rejected by scientists and theologians V Stephen Jay Gould a leading evolutionist said this referring to Usshers work (which he also said was the best scholarship of that time: Today we rightly reject a cardinal premise of that methodology V belief in biblical inerrancy -- and we recognize that this false assumption allowed such a great error in estimating the age of the earth. The issue is inerrancy of scripture V any true scientific scholar cant believe in an old age for the earth or evolution without also rejecting the inerrancy of scripture.Rev 22:1-5 Our final home V The New Jerusalem

Sorry Steve,
A long list of biblical quotes with YEC interpretation is not "Independant Historical Corroboration for Biblical Events" which is, I believe, the focus of this topic. I myself am extremely interested in the topic as a non-Christian with a strong Bible fascination. My understanding of the OT is increased when I find historical information that explains particular portions. One of the kindest and most powerful Christians I had the honor of meeting said that it doesn't matter if David was real or fictional, it was the illustration of the covenant that was most important. Anyway, my two cents worth.

So far you have once again failed to provide any information.As to Bishop Usher's scholarly work, he was a dork. Since the Jewish calander begins with the creation, why didn't he just ask a Jew? Any Jew in the world could have saved him from all his work. I'm not at all sure what is scholarly about redoing something that has been done daily for thousands of years. It is like saying that he confirmed that apples fall from trees.steve.The problem is that there is little independent corroboration for Biblical Events. It is really that simple.Pick an event from the Bible. Show that there is independent corroboration. Pick next event. Repeat test.Let's try it. You pick any one event and we will search for historical corroboration.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion