Babel: The Mother Culture?

Dude, you are conflating the scientific concept of bias with making an asumption. I would contend that you are making perfect use of 'Observer Bias'; a very common bias in Psychology.There are many types of bias in a formal scientific sense.Again what you are calling 'having bias' is actually 'having an a priori asumption'.Get any A level Psychology book and look up bias. A good one to start with is the Fundemental Attribution Error.

They not only have a date range... but a date as well. As to what those are precisely, is immaterial to me. These stories are confirmed by other cultures. I am content to know that they are ancient.All of history is divided by the appearence of Christ and is either before His reign, or durring (the first days, and the last). That kind of time scale is more relevant to the subject at hand. Your using relative time, to interpret and critique things with an eternal and truthful nature.The gosamer threads of Biblical understanding mean more to me than the concrete proof of worldy wisdom. Because below the surface of the visible world, is an invisible world which binds it together. Connections you can see if your eyes are open. Or do you operate under the delusion that when we found the atom, we had reached the final frontier?Do you think that if something is beyond your understanding, that it doesn't exist? If you need full proof and understanding of everything before believing it, then how do you know that you are here?Seriously! Where is here? And who are you?Now I will concede that to a person with the mind of an attorney, dates and times (facts and figures) are thickly woven cables with which to animate puppets and protect their unbelief. And it is clear you assume there are puppets among us. You find yourself (not accidentally) in the court of public debate right?What is it about the Bible that you find so threatening, that you find the need to tear it down?And isn't it telling that such a nobel creature as yourself cannot tear down the True Temple, and neither can you build one that satisfies the treacherous demands of History!Your borrowed psychological theories and scientific methodologies are poor and empty systematized religions with which to elevate yourself above the unwashed masses.As Jesus said to the teachers of the law in that day (paraphrased) "You clean the outside of the dish (with your ceremonies and ritual observances), but inwardly you are full of wickedness. You should first give what is on the inside to the poor (confess your sins and tell the truth and stop hiding behind your fig leaves) then you will be accepted into real and open relationship with your fellow man and everything will be clean for you."You place way too much confidence in the houses of cards built by other men which exist to intimidate you into submission by way of public humiliation and scorn. Take up your cross instead. The scorn is not nearly as intimidating as you have been led to believe. God will give you the words to speak, but it will not be you speaking.Off to work...

No, no and no again. Borrowed by the Arkadians right the way down to the Hebrews. Rehashed and borrowed. If this is your arguement you must use it in the correct forum. This is a Science Forum. I have borrowed nothing but learned by hard graft what you hand wave away.Quit preaching, pony up with some evidence or get out of Dodge.

This is just a request since you seem knowledgable in all creation things. Perhaps you could go to this thread and enlighten us on a few things?

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Place yourself on the map at http://www.frappr.com/evc

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The thread about this map can be found here.

You sure presume to know a lot about me, including my religious beliefs, from my just asking a simple question.Also, how stong are your beliefs that you can't even answer a relevant question concering such beliefs without rushing to judge and condemn me for asking?

would you settle for a date it was completed?

curiously, you have quoted a pertinant passage, but for all the wrong reasons. this passage very likely applies specifically to the tower of babel, should it be a real place. but i'm also curious as why you used the hebrew "sheol" but the latin "lucifer" instead of the hebrew "heylel."anyways, the hebrew heylel (something like "glorious one") is a title for a king, an earthly king, and the passage starts (in verse 4) with "thou shalt take up this parable against the king of Babylon."i think the odds are that the king of babylon at the time was the one responsible for the exile, nebuchadnezzar ii, who coincidentally went around restoring and finishing incomplete ziggurats, a few of which are decent candidates for being the inspiration for babel.babel, puns aside, was an intentional jab at babylon, in a text largely compiled just prior to exile. and isaiah 14 is a slightly more direct jab, and probably at the very same person, for similar reasons.

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I'll be gone for a couple days, but here is your answer...Because the king of Babylon not only represents human and earthly kings, but the God of this age (lucifer/satan) as well. The armies of darkness are referred to by the prophets both as men, and their seducing spirit.Very much the same way Ezekiel has prophesied against Pharoah...Ezekiel 29:1-7: Revelation 19:11-19:

I hear this often and it is thrown out as sort of a side glancing justification that the Bible must be true and special for it receive so much attention and criticisms. The bible is not any more special in this sense then say the Koran.The bible just happens to dominate western thinking. The bible has shaped our western society in many ways - some for the better and some definitely for the worse.Today, at least in the US, the bible believing religious folks are very politically active trying to force creationism in to schools, prayer into schools, control research dollars, impede research into emerging fields such as stem cells, cloning, etc.I remember a once Secretary of the Interior, James Watt, publicly held to the belief that we are in the end times and resource conservation was unnecessary as it was all going burn anyways. Mr. Watt was quoted "My responsibility is to follow the Scriptures which call upon us to occupy the land until Jesus returns".All these people derive their illogical and harmful world views based on the belief that the Bible is the inspired word of god. Therefore it is important and natural to expose and illustrate that the Bible is not the word of god. The bible does not contain messages direct from God and that we should not limit our view of the world based on the limited knowledge and wisdom of the bronze age!

Good point, iceage. I vote we abolish the 10 commandments, and all laws derived from them. Any public use of them results in automatic fines.

Looks like you only have two that would fall under your little remark. But wait, these are also unlawful in cultures that were never influenced by the commandments. So, no problem.

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Look to this day, For yesterday is already a dream. And tomorrow only a vision. But today We lived, makes every Yesterday a dream of Happiness and every tomorrow A vision of hope. Look well there to This day.

Actually articles 5 and 7 come with a significant amount of fine print. They are just considered guidelines, unless you are commanded by god to kill, rape and steal.The astute reader will notice that God commanded killing, raping and stealing repeatably almost like there was a lesson we were to glean from it.Anastasia, not to pollute this thread, there is a thread on this topic (as least with respect ot rape) here Message 1.As Alacrity pointed out other cultures have similar laws without the benefit of the big 10. Interestingly a recent study published in the "Journal of Religion and Society" found a positive correlation between the extent of illegal and immoral behavior and the degree that a society characterizes itself as god fearing or religious. The crime rate between US and Japan was cited in that journal.Sure some of the Commandments forbid actions that are also forbidden in western legal codes. However these forbidden modes of conduct are parallel to what can be found in laws throughout the world. Are the Ten Commandments the basis for Chinese law, merely because murder and theft are forbidden in China?

Really? So, their running around with the cliff notes to the commandments. Found it on the net, thanks.

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Look to this day, For yesterday is already a dream. And tomorrow only a vision. But today We lived, makes every Yesterday a dream of Happiness and every tomorrow A vision of hope. Look well there to This day.

Articles 5 and 7 cover more than you would think. "Thou shalt not kill" leads to obeying traffic rules, driving sober, not smoking in public areas, illegalization of drugs, and FDA testing and approvals. It is also the basis for the Christian stance on cloning and abortion.These are not the only two commandments that remain relevant. It is against the law to commit perjury, forgery, and false evidence and testimonies.It is against the law to rape, commit incest, and pedophilia.Articles 9 and 10 are relevant in that attempted theft and attempted rape are punishable even if they have not actually been committed.Even so, if other cultures have these rules without the 'big 10', then I will simply have to ask; what is so Christian about our society anyway? maybe nothing. The Bible can still be interesting.To hold the bible responsible for one stray lunatic who very un-christianlike abuses the nation's resources, is no better than holding Marilyn Manson responsible for schoolroom slayings. But this is so not the topic, so I will stop.

Not happening, talk about contorting stuff. So, they are against the law in Japan also, Seeing that Japan is not a Christian country and not influenced by your commandments. 9 and 10 are about wanting, you really try to make things fit that don't. Bad analogy. I own all of his albums, never did he ever say go kill anybody. But as iceage has shown your god does(in the bible) tell people to kill, rape et al

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Look to this day, For yesterday is already a dream. And tomorrow only a vision. But today We lived, makes every Yesterday a dream of Happiness and every tomorrow A vision of hope. Look well there to This day.