If Genesis is Metaphorical, what's the metaphor?

The metaphor is the relationship of God to man, the nature of God, and how that nature is to be reconciled with the presence of evil in the world.It's basically about the place of the Hebrew people in the world, and their relationship with their God. That's what religions do, basically - give us narrative frameworks that explain our place in the world.

Jor-el-I would agree. I believe that Moses is the author and I take Genesis literally. Poetic device is used as with almost any writing. I just want to understand the opposing view.Jar-As far as Genesis goes, we have entirely different viewpoints, which is fine. To each his own. However, I would suggest reading Paradise to Prison, by John J. Davis. A very well written book, and I'll warn you now he is conservative. But he is very thorough in his analysis of Genesis. I would suggest it to anyone with an interest in Gen.

You seem to be assuming that Moses actually existed. However, there is little evidence that any of the events related in the first five books in the Old Testament ever transpired or that any of the persons mentioned were actually real people.

Yes, there are some folk that ascribe Genesis to Moses but I don't think many would do so these days. There are simply too many indications that Genesis was written by many different people, from many different cultures, many different periods and many different voices. To attribute it to Moses also assumes that there was such a person in reality, which seems most unlikely.The key point is that the Creations tales in Genesis have little to do with Creation except as a literary device. It is similar to other examples where war might be discussed as a way of portraying valor or surfing as a background for Gidget to break sexual stereotypes.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

What I think to be the main story of Genesis (the fall) is one of maturation. The childish and innocent Adam and Eve learn the knowledge of good and evil for themselves, here exemplared by the symbolic act of eating the apple. They become aware of their sexuality.Yet god the father had ordered them not to eat of the apple and gain the knowledge. How are they punished? They are sent from their home and from their father's direct care but not his love. Eve is punished by the bearing of children and all it entails and they must work to care for themselves and bring forth their own children.The story of the fall is the story of becoming an adult and doing what adults do. The fall of Adam and Eve from grace is the same fall we all take. We grow, we learn and we leave our parents behind. Stories like Genesis remind us that others have gone on before and not to fear the path.That's what myth is. It is a grand stage on which the smallest dramas of life are played out for us. In the end, Genesis, like all myths, is teaching us how to be human and that there is no finer thing to be.The problems arise when the dressing is mistaken for the meal. It is not that there was a garden and an apple, but that we all lived in the garden and ate the apple, if we are adults. Assuming literal truth for these grand and powerful tales and to not understand what they are really telling us is to demean them. It is classic case of not seeing the forest for the trees.This is not a direct reply to Crash, but I've typed it out and don't want to change who I'm replying to.

Chiroptera,We have to assume many things when we read the Bible, faith plays a part here. That must be left to the individual.As for your comment can you also assume that he did exist? We can play that game all year round and still not come up with answer that will satisfy everybody equally.I suppose you have heard of Troy?Up until the 19th Century, Troy was supposed to be a Fable, a legend that was never supposed to have existed. Homer first mentioned the story of Troy in the Illiad and Odyssey. As such it was a fabled account of Heroism and also of the despotic and base nature of man. It was used as a metaphor many times.Charles Mclaren in 1822 found the ruins of Troy left from Hellenistic and Roman Illion at Hisarlik, Canakkale in Turkey. Boy was everybody surprised!!There are even some accounts of fellow archeologists putting the find in doubt, he he he...Speaking of Homer, wasn't he a poet who wrote in poetic form as well as prose?
...................................................................................jar,When you say some folk, I hope you realize that all of Judaism and I would say most of Christianity don't dispute this affirmation.If you insist on seeing the Bible (one can't single out a book and forget the rest!)as just a collection of stories, that is your perrogitive and right. I won't argue with that.Also please post a link as to where it says that there are too many indications that Genesis was written by many different people, from many different cultures, many different periods and many different voices. I suppose you can back that up.
...................................................................................mikehager,I totally agree with you that, the stories can be used to convey the message you posted, yet would you deny that, as christians it is necessary to take the extra step of faith that changes a dead text into a living one?

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We are the sum of all that is, and has been. We will be the sum of our choices.

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I suppose you have heard of Troy?

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Yes, and I have also heard of Ulysses. Maybe we should assume that he really did sail home from Troy, that a sorceress turned his men into pigs, and he blinded a one-eyed giant.I've also heard of Beowulf. Maybe he did kill a superhuman monster and died battling a dragon.And I have heard of the Kushtaka, in the tales of Tlingit of South East Alaska. Maybe there really were people with arms growing forward out of their chests and whisker under their noses who would lure lost people to their homes under the sea.Like you say, we assume many things when we hear these tales, faith plays a part here.But, to be frank, I have trouble even considering the possibility that men turned into pigs, dragons existed, people had arms growing out of their chests, and that an entire nation of people walked through the Red Sea and lived off of magically appearing food for 40 years. These claims are a bit fantastic, and I would like to see some evidence before I consider the possibility.

I do deny that faith is needed to get value out of the bible, and I deny that any more value is gained with faith. In fact, the value is diminished.Their value is the same as any other mythology, all are of equal value. To think one is inherently of greater truth when all convey the same message is nonsensical.

So would I!!!But the city was found even if the rest is hogwash. In every story there is a kernel of truth.Saying that Moses didn't exist is just too convenient, don't you think?
Hey, maybe Jesus didn't exist, and the bible is just a collection of fancy tales to put the children to bed at night. That my friend is where faith comes into the picture...Those who have it know in their hearts, whether others like it or not.So let's all become evolutionists and end the debate. The forum can close down. We have all the answers we need.

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We are the sum of all that is, and has been. We will be the sum of our choices.

All things being relative and equal, right?I'm afraid that isn't how christianity works, only philosophers take that stance.

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We are the sum of all that is, and has been. We will be the sum of our choices.

Of course I can back it up. LOLLet's start with Bishop Sims of the Atlanta Diocese of the Episcopal Church. I highlighted parts of his text, which is from his Pastoral Letter relating to The Theory of Evolution and Creationism. The full text can be found here. Frankly, I don't know of any major Christian or Jewish scolars that believe Moses actually wrote any of the Pentateuch.But this subject really needs to be addressed in one of the other Genesis threads.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Well, so far after more searching than was ever spent on Troy, there has been nothing found that would even suggest that Moses ever lived. In fact, just like there are two creation stories, two flood stories, the tales of Moses contain all of the hallmarks of myth. Again, the story and myth of the Exodus are simply plot devices used to tell another story. What does Evolution have to do with either Genesis or Christianity?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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In every story there is a kernel of truth.

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This is false. Some stories are largely true, some only contain a kernel of truth, and some are completely false.--

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Saying that Moses didn't exist is just too convenient, don't you think?

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Convenient for whom? It certainly doesn't matter to me whether Moses existed or not.--

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...Maybe Jesus didn't exist....

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Indeed, maybe he did not. There isn't any evidence aside from the Gospel narratives themselves that he did.--

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So let's all become evolutionists and end the debate.

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Why end the debate? Maybe there was a 1st century itinerate preacher who taught to love one's neighbor and that the kingdom of god was at hand. Probably not a miracle worker, and if scholars like the Jesus Seminar can be trusted, probably didn't teach much about damnation or that there is only one way to heaven.Maybe there really was an ancient Semite law giver. If so, probably didn't lead an entire nation into the promised land after doing some magic tricks in front of Pharoah.I'm saying that we should be like evolutionists -- let us examine the evidence, and base any definite conclusions on the evidence. Faith is fine, one shouldn't expect others to treat our faith as if it were established fact.

what the hell

what the