The Bible was NOT man made, it was Godly made

Kb wrote: But photons don’t have all the properties of classical particles, NOR do they have all the properties of waves. For instance, classical particles have mass, photons don’t. Classical Particles are free from interference with each other unless they come into contact - photons aren’t. Classical particles cannot exceed or even reach the speed of light - photons can travel at the speed of light. Waves require a medium for transmission - photons don’t. Classical particles when passing an oblique boundary reduce their angle of transmission if that boundary speeds them up - yet photons passing an oblique boundary reduce their angle of transmission only if they slow down. Etc.The photon analogy may work well, since the Bible appears to have some properties of each - human and divine authorship in different parts of the Bible.Many of the properties of photons are not those of a particle. Many are not those of a wave. If a book is by someone, then that shows in the book. Thus, if a book is by a trickster, or evil god, it would show those properties. Conversely, if a book were by a human idiot, it would show those properties. If a book were by a god with limited knowledge, it would show those properties. If you disagree, then what critieria would you use to determine whether or not the Illiad was or was not written by Satan?Similarly, what criteria should I use to determine if my phone book is written by the Jesus almighty? If there is no way to know if my phone book as opposed to the Bible is written by Jesus, then why should I not start each day with a reading from my phone book, and base my life on it? I’m still not clear on what you mean by OC. Many Christians today don’t hold that view, and even those who do hold that view disagree about which Bible. Is the 66 book bible fully divine? How could that be if the 73 book bible is fully divine? Or is the NIV fully divine? How could that be if the KJV is fully divine, and dozens of verses were removed from it to make the NIV? Or is the MSG bible fully divine? How could that be since it has several hundred pages more text, including additional concepts (or if it is, then how could the KJV be divine)? Or is the Peshitta bible divine, or the Ethiopian, or Coptic one, all with different contents? Or what about the epistle of barnabas - it’s in our oldest bibles, but not the NLT? Which is divine? Are the all divine? If so, then why? Also if so, then is the Jehovah’s witness bible divine? What about the book of mormon? Does “orthodox Christianity” include them? Does it include Martin Luther, who didn’t like the book of James? Even the very claim that the Bible is divine makes no sense unless one first defines what they mean by “Bible” - unless all books are divine, which I guess I wouldn’t argue with, since God is all, right?Thanks-Equinox

So I presume you would class Jesus and the NT writers as "fundies"? Because this is exactly what the Jewish leaders in John 7 were doing--denying the revelation of God through Jesus.

Do you deny the revelation of God to Joseph Smith?

Point taken regarding mass. Perhaps I should have used an electron for the analogy rather than a photon?But note that I did NOT claim that photons have all of the properties of "classical particles". You have changed my wording and meaning. I simply said that they have "ALL of the properties of particles." A "classical particle" is an approximation to reality which implicitly excludes wave properties. In other words, a "classical particle" is a particle with added restrictions which are not essential to its nature as a particle. I would disagree that this is an essential property of a "wave". Agreed, but I suspect that the evidence for divine authorship is not strong enough to persuade a hard-core skeptic. If someone is not willing to entertain divine authorship, they will find an alternative explanation which makes them comfortable.

quote:

---

I wrote: Similarly, the Bible is both FULLY human and FULLY divine according to orthodox Christianity.

---

Muslims and Mormons believe that God revealed himself through dictation, with absolutely no human involvement in authorship. This is not orthodox Christianity (though there is one small group of fundamentalist Baptists who hold this view). The orthodox Christian view is that all of the biblical words, phrases, grammar, etc. in the original manuscripts came from the human writers, based on their own cultural backgrounds, yet every word in the original manuscripts is also the inspired word of God. Good questions, but discussions of canon and translations should be in another thread (these topics would quickly derail this thread).

I’m glad you recognize the issue here regarding “classical particle”. I clarified that because to say something combines the properties of two different things, they have to be different things. In the 1700’s people had an idea for “particle” and an idea for “wave”. With our current understanding, QM has shown us that the two are synonymous, whether you are talking about an electron or a thrown football. Thus, the analogy of using it to combine two different things no longer works with your stipulation, unless you want to go the route of saying that all humans are god because everything is God. I’m not so sure they are off topic. Perhaps they are exactly on topic, since to assert that the Bible is Godly made, one must define “Bible”.It’s like if I said “the lake has magic properties, if you jump in it will transform you into a butterfly! - now we can discuss the evidence for that.”To which you said “which lake do you mean?”, and I replied “sorry, that’s off topic!”Which Bible?Have a fun evening-EquinoxP.S. - and I still don't see how to get a different meaning from your "OC" than "those C who agree with me". I mean, yes a lot of Christians hold that view, but many don't, and it's not clear that your view has always (or even ever) been the only Christian or even the majority view out there. Did the Catholic church between 600 and 1000 hold the dual view, or the direct literal word of God view? I suspect the latter.

But the ONLY thing that makes something a Bible is whether or not it is adopted under a Canon.You cannot remove consideration of Canon from the issue "The Bible was NOT man made, it was Godly made" since the ONLY thing that makes something "A Bible" is whether or not it adheres to one of the Canons.Edited by jar, : change sub-title

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Denying the revelation of God through Jesus has nothing to do with denying God.You're still assuming the conclusion - that the Bible is the revelation of God through Jesus. If it's man-made, it's just some guy's idea of the revelation of God.

---

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

the idea that a archived book of folklore that dates to 2 thousand years ago, where the collective human intelect was scratching the surface is used to teach the history of the universe and the direction the future will be heading is plain primitive.

Welcome to EvC Shaitan!And it gets even worse! These same people want to use that folklore to supplant the scientific education that American children will need if we want any hope of competing in the competitive, global marketplace that’s already upon us.-EquinoxEdited by Equinox, : typo

Welcome shaitan,Glad you decided to add to our diversity. We have a wide variety of forums for your debating pleasure.As members, we are guests on this board and as guests we are asked to put forth our best behavior. Please read the Forum Guidelines carefully and understand the wishes of our host. Abide by the Forum Guidelines and you will be a welcome addition.In the purple signature box below, you'll find some links that will help make your journey here pleasant.Please direct any questions or comments you may have concerning this post to the Moderation Thread.Again, welcome and fruitful debating.

---

Usually, in a well-conducted debate, speakers are either emotionally uncommitted or can preserve sufficient detachment to maintain a coolly academic approach.-- Encyclopedia Brittanica, on debate

---

I think i have a way to test your idea
In Matthew 21:21
Jesus says
"If you have faith and do not doubt you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer"
if you look at what he is saying he says with enough faith you can move a mountain.
if you try this nothing will happen.
So isn't he lying?
You might say no,because he is just speaking metaphorically.
But you see this you really should be able move that mountain.
because in his next statement he says.
"If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer"
Because he uses the word "whatever" it makes this statement an absolute statement.
So he is saying you can have anything you want the only limitation is that you believe.
believe in Jesus is not magic,its accepting that the things that he says are true.
so if you look at his statement he's saying you can have what ever you want just accept that what he's telling you is the truth.
But sense you don't get what you want he is actually lying.
So Jesus cant be that perfect Savior but just a nother man.
A perfect Savior can't make promises he cant keep.
That make the bible just a nother book written by men.

Just supposing jesus spoke the truth and we can have whatever we have faith in. Just supposing we don't really know what it is we have faith in. We may just think we do. Just suppose there was a much bigger story than our individual life but a connected life called humanity. Just supppose it was the individual consciousness connectd to the mass consciousness that manifested life as we know it.
Life as an individual, life in society and life on a global scale. Just sopposing that every single bit of faith in whatever we believe in will be presented in physical form or experience, by god. Just supposing this is the true nature of god to reflect or present or manifest a replica of our inner selves.
This is a god I could believe in. One without favourites. One without judgement. One who shows us again and again that which we are creating only to show us who we really are. Not a penny more, not a penny less.

Well, to see if the Bible is written by God or not, why dont we look in the Bible? Here are a few key texts:'Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophets own interpretation. For propecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.' -2 Peter 1:20-21'All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness.' -2 Timothy 3:16'Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light for my path.' -Psalm 119:105'Every word of God is flawless, he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.' -Proverbs 30:5'And we thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at work in you who believe.' -1 Thessalonians 2:13That should settle this debate. The Bible itself states that it is the word of God.

Yeah that's an ironclad arguement.

---

Live every week like it's Shark Week!
Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

The Bible also says, in other places, that God will do whatever you ask that is IN HIS WILL. God is not a magician that does what you want. He is eternal, all powerful and all knowing. He can see what is best. Jesus says that a father would give his child food if they need it, just like God will give us whatever we need. He is NOT a magic charm to be pulled out of a box when we want a bit of luxury.