Greetings sup32string,
quote:
ok well the linage of jesus really is irrelavent, because he really didn't exist He was based on a scholar of the first century and of ancient religions and heros.
Indeed,
there is no contemporary evidence for Jesus of Nazareth as a historical figure, even where we would expect it - e.g. Justus of Tiberias or Philo Judaeus.
Notably, not even the earliest Christians makes any mention of a historical Jesus of Nazareth :
* Paul refers in spiritual terms to a divine figure Iesous Christos - nothing historical
* other epistles makes no reference to a historical Jesus of Nazareth - James, Peter, Jude, Colossians, Ephesians, the Pastorals, Hebrews
* other early Christian writings make only vague spiritual references - Clement, the Didakhe
The Gospels and their contents were unknown to Christians until early-mid 2nd century.
quote:
here is a small history on the creation of the church and the christian religion.
History?
Incorrect - no historian or history text agrees with your arguments - it sounds more like a pamphlet from the Theosophical Society or some-such. If you are a sceptic trying to find the truth, why on earth didn't you check your claims?
quote:
No mention of a man called Jesus Christ is in history untill 325 ad.
Wrong.
Christians start referring to Jesus of Nazareth as a historical figure starting just after the final Jewish war - early-mid 2nd century :
* Papias seemingly refers briefly to a historical Jesus, probably early-mid 2nd century,
* Ignatius (probably forged early-mid 2nd century) makes a TINY few references to Jesus.
* Aristides refers briefly to Jesus, probably early-mid 2nd century - he describes the "Gospel" as preached for a short time (i.e. a RECENT production).
* Justin argued with Trypho about whether Jesus really was the Christ, mid 2nd century.
* Irenaeus, Tertullian, Hippolytus and Clement wrote at length about Jesus as a historical figure at the end of the 2nd century.
* Many other Christian writers refer to a historical Jesus Christ in the 3rd century.
A few non-Christians refer to a historical Jesus from late 2nd century :
* Celsus argued that the Gospels were fiction based on myth - yet he seems to agree that Jesus did exist as such figures were commonplace - in the late 2nd century.
* Galen mentions Jesus briefly in late 2nd century.
* Porphyry argued that the Gospels were fiction, yet apparently accepted Jesus existed, late 3rd century.
Readers may be interested to note that some 2nd century Christian writings describe a Christianity with NO Jesus -
* Theophilus describes Christianity in detail, with NO MENTION of Jesus Christ even when discussing the meaning of the word "Christian" or arguing resurrection is possible!
* Athenagoras also argues for resurrection with no mention of Jesus or Christ even ONCE (or Lazarus.)
* Minucius Felix argues specifically that Christians do NOT believe in a crucifixion or the incarnation!
* The Johanine epistles arguably show evidence for a Christian sect with no son of god.
I agree that Jesus never existed, I agree there is no contemporary evidence for him.
But,
its simply not true to claim that No mention of a man called Jesus Christ is in history untill 325 ad
quote:
In 325 ad the Nicene Council came out with the Bible.
Actually, sup23string, this claim is often made by sceptics, yet it has no foundation.
The decisions of the Council of Nicea still exist to this day (the "minutes of the meeting", so-to-speak) - you can read them yourself here:
http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF2-14/TOC.htm
If you read this incredibly boring turgid rubbish yourself, you will find the council dealt with two main issues:
* Arianism
* the date of Easter
There is NO MENTION anywhere in the Nicean writings about the books of the Bible -
none,
nada,
zip,
zero,
zilch.
But, ten years later, Constantine commissioned 50 Bibles to be made - we may even have 1 or 2 of these very Bibles to this day (C.Vaticanus and/or C.Sinaiticus). They do NOT contain the same books as our modern bibles.
Also,
there are several ancient accounts of what happened at the Council of Nicea, and NONE of them makes ANY mention about the books of the Bible (or re-incarnation) - you can see a good analysis of this here:
http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/nicaea.html
quote:
This is how Christianity came to be...the truth is Christianity was created some 250+ years after the man Jesus was suppose to have lived.
No it isn't - you left out Paul, James, Peter (assuming he existed, which is doubtful), Marcion, Justin, Irenaeus, Tertullian, the 2 Clements etc. who all had a hand in creating Christianity.
quote:
This of course would make the Church very happy for any knowledge of where they had stolen their religion from was thought to be gone. Paulinus the first Archbishiop of York in 622, stated that he was the first translator of the scriptures from Gallic into the Saxon tounge had said "I subsituted, as did Eusebius, Jesus Christ of Judea for Apollonius of Tyana" to make "them correspond with Eusebius' version." (Antiquity Unveiled p.544)
I don't think alleged channelings of dead people will be seen as very credible arguments - I can find no real evidence that Paulinus really said that.
quote:
Also the Bible finaly became set in its form then, instead of being changed over the years. So in actuality the bible as we know it is only roughly 400 years old. An interesting fact.
Its not a fact, its just plain false information.
The canon was fixed long before then - the Festal Epistle of Athanasius of 367CE containing the first canon that agrees with ours (not counting the issue of Catholic vs Protestant canons)
The Greek wording of the Bible was generally fixed long before then, but differing translations continue to arise based on newly discovered manuscripts, and also on the choices between different manuscripts when making a translation.
The only thing had happened to the Bible 400 years ago was that an influential translation was made under the patronage of King James - this Bible is now considered a very POOR translation of the original, and many better translations have been, and continue to be made.
Iasion
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